Re. indie game design forum: define "publish," ple

[Rexfelis]

In one of the stickies for the Indie Game Design forum, Ron Edwards says the following: "When posting to this forum, realize that it's tantamount to committing to being a game publisher."

Now, I had actually read that before I first posted there. But, I had read it long enough ago (I've lurked at The Forge longer than I've posted) to have forgotten it entirely. What I'm wondering now is, what the heck does "publish" mean, for purposes of qualifying a game for discussion there? I assume web-publishing is sufficient. I assume "printing out copies for my friends to read when we play the game" is not.

The reason I'm asking is, I plan on doing the latter. In which case I may be in violation of the forum rules with my "Dominion" thread. In which case, I have to ask--perhaps the "publish" requirement is needlessly stiff? (Especially given Ron Edwards' philosophy about the value of an rpg being in "enjoyment derived from actual play" ;).

Rexfelis

[Jack Aidley]

Hi Rexfelis,

I think the thing you need to realise about (what I perceive to be) Ron and Clinton's goals for the Forge is that it is not here to help you enjoy roleplaying, or to promote Ron's theories of roleplaying - it is here to promote and assist the production and publication of indie role playing games. The other things do happen here, and that's good, but it's not the point of the Forge.

This focus is one of the things that makes the Forge such a unique and valuable place. You might also find, like me, that spending your time here eventually leads to you publishing your own indie game after all.

Cheers,

Jack.

[Valamir]

Publishing means being put into a format where it can be enjoyed by others.  Posting an HTML version of your completed game on your website where it can be read for free is published.  Neither sale of nor print version, nor formally laid out PDF complete with art is required.

(This is consistant with the U.S. definition of published with regards to copyright protection also).

The purpose of the rule is to prevent the situation where members spend hours assisting another with a game idea, and that party never really intended to do anything with it any way...it was just a hypothetical "what if" to them.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Both Jack and Ralph (Valamir) are right. I figured I'd weigh in too ...

Rexfelis (king of cats, I presume), you wrote,

What I'm wondering now is, what the heck does "publish" mean, for purposes of qualifying a game for discussion there? I assume web-publishing is sufficient. I assume "printing out copies for my friends to read when we play the game" is not.

That's essentially correct. But if you were to print out more copies for other people, then it's publishing. Or as Ralph says, just post it on a webpage, and it's published. Think of it as passing it out on a street corner, or, if you charge, as setting up a lemonade stand.

The reason I'm asking is, I plan on doing the latter. In which case I may be in violation of the forum rules with my "Dominion" thread. In which case, I have to ask--perhaps the "publish" requirement is needlessly stiff? (Especially given Ron Edwards' philosophy about the value of an rpg being in "enjoyment derived from actual play" ;).

I'm willing to spot you, and anyone, the possibility that the game you're designing may indeed find itself published, perhaps as a website thing - especially if you intend to play it. Again, as Ralph said, the point is to keep Indie Design from being a "what if" exercise forum, and to keep it focused on playability for all parts of the game. All I ask is that you, as well, spot yourself and us the same possibility and contribute to the forum in the spirit of that possibility.

Best,
Ron

[Rexfelis]

Thank-you, all, for the replies.

I'm willing to spot you, and anyone, the possibility that the game you're designing may indeed find itself published, perhaps as a website thing - especially if you intend to play it. Again, as Ralph said, the point is to keep Indie Design from being a "what if" exercise forum, and to keep it focused on playability for all parts of the game. All I ask is that you, as well, spot yourself and us the same possibility and contribute to the forum in the spirit of that possibility.

I see. I will go ahead and commit to publishing the game in some form. I don't currently have a website, but that's on the horizon (as in, I'm about to plan a joint website with a friend), and, failing web-publication, I may eventually go to Kinko's or something and then try to sell low-production-value copies of the game at the local coffee house for $5 a pop (or whatever). Since my SO fancies herself an illustrator, and since I know a few other wannabe-artists, I may even have a cheap source of pic's lined up.

Sounds fun, like a challenge even ;).

Thanks and regards,

Rexfelis

[JamesSterrett]

If I might follow up on this with my own concrete example....

I've run three homebrew LARPs for friends, and my co-GM and I are embarking on setting up the fourth (probably to run sometime in May or June).  I've no particular intention of publishing the rules for these, though I'm happy to email the relevant docos off to anybody who asks for them.

Having discovered the Forge a few months ago, and thereby getting my brain expanded, I'm seriously considering posting up some questions of design to assist in making game #4 better, or, at the least, go on a fishing expedition for clever ideas to make game #4 better.

Given that publication, under the above definitions, is extremely unlikely, should I pose such questions in the Design forum, or the Theory forum?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi James,

I'd call that Actual Play, myself. Not only would you be posting about how the game worked, in the various instances, but you'd be asking for input about how to change things as well.

Best,
Ron