[Great Ork Gods] Playtest release

[Jack Aidley]

Eggo,

One question: how many deaths did you get in your game? Did you find the mortality rate too high/low or about right?

Cheers,

Jack.

[Darcy Burgess]

I don't know exactly how many dead orks we produced.  However, no player ended the game with their original character (that's at least 4 deaths), and most went through more than 1 extra.

Let's guesstimate at around 6 or 7 fatalities, spread out over 4 players.  (Including one at the hands of the halfling, for shame!)

With regards to the fatality level, it didn't seem excessive.

What was both challenging (and fun) was coming up with new ways to introduce characters.

I had one or two just "wander over the hill".  Another couple were "reserves" that Dursil had held in reserve, expecting his main force of boyz to fail.  One was even the long-lost brother of an original character, who had accidentally got himself stuck in his brother's bag of holding.

Bag of holding you say?

Yup.  When we equipped the orcs, one player asked for a bag of holding.  I said "sure", since the BoH is a whole whack of fun even in a serious game.

It's comic potential is limitless in an Orky game.

At one point, the mayor and all three daughters were in the bag, and all the orks were fighting each other off, trying to steal it.  Then one got the bright idea to start STABBING the bag.

Nothing like making a "killing" action one governed by The Obscurer of Things...:)

'twas fun.

[charles ferguson]

Hi Jack,
Unfortunately I won't get to play this any time soon, but GOG sounds like an absolute hoot. Love the twist-on-a-twist: players don't roll their OWN stats, they roll for the "favor" of the gods (now thats serious pawn stance...)--but its a negative roll! Fabulosi.

Anyways, I have some minor comments on layout. Its nit-picky-level stuff so YMMV.
[list=a]
[*]SPITE
Any reason you don't put the SPITE explanation further up?  Currently, you first mention Spite (as part of the explanation about Assigning the Gods) before you've explained what it actually is. This seemd a little jagged to me. It might read more smoothly if you defined the term before using it in the text--maybe where you define Hate & Oog would be a natural lead-in for Spite as well?

[*] FLAILING LIMBS
Flailing Limbs is described as she--should she be described in the text as a "Goddess"?

[*]SHOOTING WITH CROSSBOW EXAMPLE
In the example in the text about shooting the crossbow, you say it uses 2 Gods, but don't name them (presumable Slashings & Obscurer). I thought explicitly stating them might be a nice opportunity to nail one of the core game concepts with a concrete example, rather than leaving it to the readers (who know almost zilch about the game at this stage) to guess.

[*] MAIN USE OF GOBBOS?
The most fun way to use Gobbos in play seems to be to use them aid Ork rolls. Would it be worth emphasizing this as their 'Main Use' in the text? One way to do this might be to mention this use first in the rules, and then, second, to mention the 'oh yeah, you can also get them to run around & do stuff', as a way of showing in the text exactly what you expect the players to prioritize in the game. Currently I read it as the reverse, because the first use for gobbos in the text is the "running around doing stuff", & the "sacrifice them to their master's whims" is mentioned last.

[/list:o]

I also had some ideas about a few conceptual things. I have no idea if they'll make any sense to anyone except me, but I thought I'd throw them out there.

[list=1]
[*] LAYING OUT THE GOD CARDS
I found this passage kind of confusing, although the actual concept isn't difficult once you figure out what it is. I couldn't think of a clearer way to describe it though. Would it be easier to explain if you did it like this:
1) lay out all the God cards face down
2) turn up a number of cards = to the number of players
3) [go thru the choosing process]
4) repeat steps 2-3 until all cards are assigned.

If I read the rules right this is functionally identical to the procedure now in GOG, but (to me) its a little clearer to explain in writing. I don't know if it would make any difference to anyone else though.

[*] INDIVIDUAL SPITE
Why doesn't each God have its own individual Spite pool? It would be mechanically as easy as, say, putting the appropriate number of counters on or near that God's card. Individual Spite would add an element of 'characterization' of the Gods during play ('avoid Lifter, he's in a filthy mood lately!'). This may increase the fun as Orks try to pick off-the-wall actions which avoid calling on the Gods who have the most Spite (they probably already do this, or will--but its harder when a single player has mulitple Gods & a single Spite pool between them). It might potentially also lead to some  chuckles as Orks try to maneuver each other into situations where they are forced to call on the most Spiteful Gods.
"Individual Spite" would reduce the overtly Gamist goal of "maximum player competition" (ie with Spite assigned to players, not to the individaul Gods, it seems to me more like the players are acting out the Spite than the Gods.) Depends what your goal is here I guess.

[*] ANNOUNCING THE USE OF GOBBOS TO BOOST A ROLL
Why can't they be announced before Spite is assigned? To me it makes more sense to do so when action is initially described (& would be simpler). Just curious :)

[/list:o]


Great game, can't wait to play. The posts so far sound like a blast :)

[Loki]

Digging the artwork, it really suits the tone of the game. That's a talented family you got over there. ;^)

[Jack Aidley]

Hi there,

Sorry for the slight delay in replying, I've been ill for the last couple of days.

Darcy,

With regards to the fatality level, it didn't seem excessive.

That's good. I was a bit worried about the level in my playtest, but it was a lot of fun anyway; so I guess it doesn't matter.

What was both challenging (and fun) was coming up with new ways to introduce characters.

I had one or two just "wander over the hill". Another couple were "reserves" that Dursil had held in reserve, expecting his main force of boyz to fail. One was even the long-lost brother of an original character, who had accidentally got himself stuck in his brother's bag of holding.

All sounds good to me. I simply had them appear on the village borders and wade on in. I think it's a good idea not to worry about it too much. You can also let the players think up there own ways to arrive.

Charles,

Unfortunately I won't get to play this any time soon, but GOG sounds like an absolute hoot. Love the twist-on-a-twist: players don't roll their OWN stats, they roll for the "favor" of the gods (now thats serious pawn stance...)--but its a negative roll! Fabulosi.

Thanks for the praise!

Any reason you don't put the SPITE explanation further up? Currently, you first mention Spite (as part of the explanation about Assigning the Gods) before you've explained what it actually is.

I put the Assigning the Gods section first as it is the first thing you do in the game. I put the Spite section after the Performing Actions section because I wanted to explain how the dice rolls work before going into detail on Spite. I realise it's a little screwy having concepts mentioned before they're defined, but I felt the definition didn't make sense without the context.

Those were my thoughts anyway; what do other's think?

Flailing Limbs is described as she--should she be described in the text as a "Goddess"?

Good catch; I'll change it. Likewise with the shooting with the crossbow example. I also intend to add some examples for each of the gods in action, and a reasonably extended example play section for the final release.

Currently I read it as the reverse, because the first use for gobbos in the text is the "running around doing stuff", & the "sacrifice them to their master's whims" is mentioned last.

It's that way round for two reasons: I actually prefer the running around doing stuff side of the gobbo's and, secondly, the helping out rules were added to the gobbo's later on.

Re: Laying out the God cards - a lot of people have commented on this passage being unclear, I clearly need to work on it.

Why doesn't each God have its own individual Spite pool?

Because any God can spend Spite on any roll, it makes no difference whether they players have one common pool or one for each God, and it makes it mechanically easier to track if you just have one pool.

Why can't they be announced before Spite is assigned? To me it makes more sense to do so when action is initially described (& would be simpler). Just curious :)

You could do that. However since Goblins only affect the difficulty, or cancel Spite, you don't know whether they're needed or not until these things are declared by the other players.

Hi Chris,

Digging the artwork, it really suits the tone of the game. That's a talented family you got over there. ;^)

Cool. Glad you like it.

Other things,

I've put together a better website, which now features an online preview section and I've set up a QuickTopic feedback forum as well - it'd be cool if I could get some 'fan' feedback in there ;).

Cheers,

Jack.

[hermes]

Eggo,

  I am appalled at how quickly you seem to have forgotten the epic tale of Grobrot Blarg (not Grishnak) the Grammar Ork, AKA Grobrot the Elf and Halfling Slayer and Avenger of Grish (who wasn't quite dead yet)!   Furthermore, you loathsome pawn of Dursil, I only had need for one further ork.  It was heartbreaking and gutwrenching to see poor Grobrot ultimately meet his gods, but fortunately for all Scratch Bagitch the Bag-Stabber and Grandma Avenger was there to save the day.  Phew!  If good ol' Scratch hadn't have been there to stop the others from meeting their certain doom at the hands of those two kick-ass little girls we might have gone through about ten characters each...I never did recover my trophies though (the callender and straw wig).  *shrugs*

Jack,

  Mighty fine game you have there.  Much hacking and stabbing fun was had by all in our playtest session.  I cannot offer much in the way of suggestions for improvement because our session was such a blast.  So when will you be coming out with the obvious sourcebooks (ie. Not-So-Great Ork Gods, Greater (and even Stupider) Troll Gods, Goblins Who Think They are Gods, etc...)?  Congrats on a solid and entertaining game.

Glenn

[John Wick]

I love this game.

*Pops Head Back Down*

[Jack Aidley]

Loki's playtest thread spun off into a discussion of various rules topics, I want now to bring those discussions back here and give my thoughts.

There were four main things I wanted to comment on:

1. Ralph's idea for various difficulty altering the way Spite is allocated, strikes me as too complicated (who was it who last appealed anyway?) for an otherwise simple system.

A modification of the theme I do like is this: normally when an Ork succeeds the God gets a point of Spite (the Gods do not like uppity Orks), my idea is this: if the Ork and the God are the same, all the other Players get Spite if the Ork succeeds (the Gods do not like favouritism). Whatcha think?

I am not going to bring in special rules for Slashings and Slayings, either the problem can be solved by modifying the Gods, or by bringing in a rule that spans all the Gods or it'll be left as it is.

2. Rules mods/tweaks.

I have confidence players will mod or tweak the rules on their own. I think offering or encouraging this would dilute the purity that makes Great Ork Gods good - there are likely to be a couple of Optional rules in the final rules, but I don't want to go for a wholesale endorsement of moding.

3. Random Ork generation.

I had originally planed on giving this as an alternative generation system, but the idea got lost somewhere along the way. I'll have a play and see if I can come up with a good system.

4. God Names

I was rather dismayed by Loki and his merry bands' dislike of the God Names - is this a common perception? What kind of names would be prefered?

And one other idea I have been kicking around:

Regarding Goblins, and having some of them 'assigned' to a given Ork. I'm thinking rather than having a number of followers equal to Oog, Orks should just start with a fixed number (four? five?) and exhaust them as the game goes on. Making Oog==Goblins is making Oog more useful than I wish it to be.

Finally:

Over 120 people have now downloaded Great Ork Gods(!). I intend to put together a second playtest release over the weekend with some correction, clarifications and a few rules tweaks.

Cheers,

Jack.

[Loki]

A modification of the theme I do like is this: normally when an Ork succeeds the God gets a point of Spite (the Gods do not like uppity Orks), my idea is this: if the Ork and the God are the same, all the other Players get Spite if the Ork succeeds (the Gods do not like favouritism). Whatcha think?

This seems very elegant. I guess that's why you're the Troll and we're the Orks. Looking forward to the next release of the rules.

[gregkcubed]

A modification of the theme I do like is this: normally when an Ork succeeds the God gets a point of Spite (the Gods do not like uppity Orks), my idea is this: if the Ork and the God are the same, all the other Players get Spite if the Ork succeeds (the Gods do not like favouritism). Whatcha think?

This seems very elegant. I guess that's why you're the Troll and we're the Orks. Looking forward to the next release of the rules.

yeah i second this one as a good addition.. can't wait for version .95 :)

this game rocks.. i keep just laughing to myself as i play out the scenes in my mind. i think i'd get banned from the forum if i described what happened. :)

[Steve Mitchell]

Hi.  I just downloaded this a couple of days ago, and haven't followed earlier postings, so possibly I'm going to repeat an idea that's been put forward before.

When I was reading the description for Savage Ork Gods at the website, even before I saw the actual rules, I thought this might be a good system to handle, in a slightly more serious way, other mythological topics, where the gods often opposed and harassed mortal men.

Specifically, and probably because I have been looking at Wyrd and Rune recently, I'm thinking about Norse mythology.  So as a variant to Savage Ork Gods (call it Grim Grey Gods or whatever), Orks become Vikings, and the gods change to the appropriate Norse analogues (Thor for strength, Loki for lies and twisted words, Tyr for war, etc.)

Hate becomes Fate, as the gods place obstacles and challenges in the path of Viking heroes, which the Vikings must either overcome to win greater Fame, or else perish.  And Oog becomes Fame, which is used to number the lesser warriors (Thanes) who accompany a Viking.

Presumably much the same thing could be done for the Greek myths and legends, but I'm not in the mood for that right now.  So, am I twisting this too far out of shape?  Has anyone else thought about changing the setting by substituting a different set of gods?

[hermes]

Specifically, and probably because I have been looking at Wyrd and Rune recently, I'm thinking about Norse mythology. So as a variant to Savage Ork Gods (call it Grim Grey Gods or whatever), Orks become Vikings, and the gods change to the appropriate Norse analogues (Thor for strength, Loki for lies and twisted words, Tyr for war, etc.)

  Wow!  I think that's a brilliant idea.  Mind you, it would change the
gruesome silliness of the game considerably.  Vikings aren't nearly as
comical (or stupid) as Orks.  But I do think it could work if played in a more serious vein.  Of course, there's still plenty of opporunity for fun and games given the stories of heavy drinking and giant-bashing that run through many of the Norse myths.

  Having said that, this game is specifically designed for Orks and Orks we must be.  All hail the Great Ork Gods!  We are low and we are green.  We make women and children scream.

Glenn

[Jack Aidley]

Hi Steve,

When I was reading the description for Savage Ork Gods at the website, even before I saw the actual rules, I thought this might be a good system to handle, in a slightly more serious way, other mythological topics, where the gods often opposed and harassed mortal men.

Great Ork Gods, not Savage.

This idea has come up before (not specifically for vikings, but using the rules for other settings), and I had thought about adding a section on it to the end of the rules. However in the end I decided that it wouldn't work.

Great Ork Gods works because it's a stupid, and carefree, game. The rules don't make a lot of sense, the player vs. player edge leads to craziness, and there's no rules way of handling serious NPCs. Taking the same rules and applying them to a more serious setting (like vikings, or greek myth) wouldn't work without some serious modification. My feeling is that you could perhaps water down the concept - so the Vikings had some skills and stats of their own, which were then modified by the Gods - but I have no idea whether it would still work.

Cheers,

Jack.

[Steve Mitchell]

hermes and Jack, thanks for the comments.  My idea of a Viking variant would still be, to all intents and purposes, a game about rampaging Orks, only now the Orks are called Bragi and Ragnar and Thorgrim, and they're bigger, better looking, and a little more cheerful.  Especially when they're rampaging. . . .