Spleen Venting: Free = Rubbish?

[brainwipe]

This rant stems from a number of email I have received recently. I don't expect any detailed analysis on the social causes of this problem, I just feel that I need to share my experience with like minded people.

I have been writing Icar for years and it's been free for download since 1999. I made it free because I wanted to do it for fun (and back then there was no decent pay method). I like the idea of giving something for free. I try my hardest to create books, resources and the like at the highest quality I can. I don't just slap half finished things from the website.

Selling online, through whatever means, has been an ongoing debate. Some think it's worth buying and therefore should be worth selling. I'm not interested in making lots of money (not by roleplaying), I'm just interested in making it available to as many people as possible. If this means publishing in PDF, writing a Lite version or creating a more easily navigable website, so be it.

Some users have recently commented that they won't download it because it's free. The 'Free' tag on the game somehow devalues it to the point of obscurity. People assume that because a game is free, it must be poor and thus: not worth downloading. It seems that any game worth its salt needs to be purchasable. The assumed vice versa to this is that games you can buy are of a higher quality than those that are free.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not into competition and my-games-bigger-than-your-game arguments but I do object to people automatically labelling due to prejudice.

Another, quietly spoken, opinion of considerable value was one person who considered it less hassle to buy a printed version than download and print the pdf themselves. I do have a fair empathy with this opinion. There is a large amount of pleasure to be hand from actually owning a book. This moves on to the 'buy the book online' or download the pdf for free. For some reason, I think Ron Edwards is doing this. I'm not prepared to go this far just yet but I do read all the fascinating threads on the Forge so I can be clued up when I do.

So, my spleen is well and truly vented. Icar remains labelled as free (and is unlikely to change) and as such will be the victim of people's prejudice!

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Rob,

One of the concepts that seems to have soaked into all of us, through interacting at the Forge, is that words organized into sentences do not, themselves, necessarily constitute anything worth paying attention to.

Someone doesn't like Sorcerer because it "uses dice pools, and I hate dice pools."

Someone doesn't like Multiverser because it's "too big."

Someone doesn't like Icar because "it's just another free game."

Yeah, whatever. Such input isn't even input, it's noise. The same kind of yip-yip-yip one hears from an adolescent mammal of any species, whether utilizing language or not. It can even be formed into well-organized paragraphs with numerous bullet points, and phrased in four-dollar words. It's still yip-yip-yip.

So here's my point: it's well and good that you dismiss this so-called input, but why post about it? "I don't care, but I'll vent about it anyway" is ... well, not convincing. These people touched a nerve in you.

My advice? (unasked for, I know)

1. Thicken your hide even further. "It's free! It must suck!" or "Make people buy it! It's worth it!" Boink, boink.

2. Make a decision about whether to charge for the game completely independently of such input. If you choose to keep it free specifically to spite these people, then you are just as enslaved by their opinion as if you had charged for the game to please them.

Those are both pretty big deals. You publish a game - decide what you want to do with it.

Best,
Ron

[quozl]

I suggest handing over the PDFs to RPGmall.com and making 10 POD books.  That'll cost you around $30.  Then get some books for yourself and offer the rest for sale at $10 each.  You'll find out for yourself whether people are just talking or if they'll put their money where their mouth is.

[xiombarg]

Echoing Jonathon's idea, I suggest you make it avialbe on lulu.com for the minimum charge, i.e. no profit to you. That way people can buy a copy if they want, but it's still more or less free -- you don't have to worry about a warehouse inventory, and people are getting the book at cost. Then you can say on your website, "download as a PDF for free, or buy the book for $10" or whatever... It might help convince people.

Certainly I think there is something to the prejudice you refer to. It's dumb to assume that free=bad, but on the other hand, if you charge for your work it means you think your work has value, as do other professional writers. This aura of "professional" does mean something a lot of the time, and it's an easy way to quickly filter the myriad RPGs available on the Internet down to a managable number. I have to admit that while I am willing to play a free game, I perk up when I hear about a game for sale... Perhaps becaue I like to support quality indie RPG work financially when I can.

[ethan_greer]

Couple quick points:

First:

This moves on to the 'buy the book online' or download the pdf for free. For some reason, I think Ron Edwards is doing this.

Rob, I think you might be thinking of Clinton, not Ron, who plans on keeping free downloads of Shadow of Yesterday available and also charging for a print version. As far as I know Ron isn't offering any free downloads of his games.

And second:

Thicken your hide even further. "It's free! It must suck!" or "Make people buy it! It's worth it!" Boink, boink.

Ron, you love that word, don't you? But in this case, what's it mean? Is it a sound effect of the comments bouncing off of Rob's newly thickened hide? Or?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Ethan,

Yes, that's exactly it: the sound of rebounding, ineffective missiles. And yes, I have been using "boink" for lots of things lately, haven't I? The sound of sudden insight, for instance. And then there's the Elfs version, but I am now going off topic.

Let's continue the discussion without further reference to sound effects.

Best,
Ron

[daMoose_Neo]

Agreed with the other sentiments here on the printing: If people want it in print, make it available~ With all of the POD services out there, its almost no hassle to you, people can still get it cheap and have their printed versions they so covet. Too, you could probably get away with a buck or so markup to help with costs associated with keeping the website up and active~
Just a thought~

[brainwipe]

My problem with POD is that the quality of the finished product appears to be questionnable. I shall certainly look into Lulu and the others (I've been keeping check on the threads elsewhere) and bear it stiffly in mind.

Ethan. You're quite right. I got mixed up between Clinton and Ron. Come to think of it, has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time? No? I thought not. ;-)

Ron. You're quite right, it is just noise and it does thwack a nerve. I shall need some *boink* armour.

I would very much like to turn the tide and change public opinion of free games. Ideally people's prejudices would not stop them from clicking that link when they see it. I feel that those who have voiced their noise (as Ron puts it) are just the noisy minority who represent the quiet majority. If there is anything I can do to attract the quiet majority and sway their opinion, then I am all ears!!!

[xiombarg]

I would very much like to turn the tide and change public opinion of free games. Ideally people's prejudices would not stop them from clicking that link when they see it. I feel that those who have voiced their noise (as Ron puts it) are just the noisy minority who represent the quiet majority. If there is anything I can do to attract the quiet majority and sway their opinion, then I am all ears!!!

I'll also note -- and this is purely anecdotal, but what isn't when it comes to RPGs -- that I've seen a trend in myself and others to take free games more seriously if they're by an author that you've bought something from, and liked.

For example, I would take a free game from Jonathan Tweet more seriously than one from, say, my little brother, even if he is my brother. Now, perhaps that is just a more subtle version of the prejudice you're railing against, but it also suggests a technique: Something you pay for increases people's respect for the free stuff, so the trick is to put out something compelling that people have to pay for, and all the free stuff you put out increases in "value". (I think Jared Sorensen has experienced that sort of thing, and vice-versa...)

Also, on another note, beware of people who say something different than they really mean. If someone denigrates Icar because it's free, the issue might not be that it's free so much that it's huge (or any number of other reasons). I think there's a reason a lot of free games are "rules light" -- the cost, in terms of time rather than money, is a lot less for a short game than a long one. I think people are more willing to peruse a long work that they've purchased, if only to prevent buyer's remorse, just like they'll avoid information about alternate choices once they've made a purchase. In fact, I think a lot of people prefer length in purchased works because they feel they "got their money's worth," even if quantity and quality don't exactly correspond. By paying money, they've already shown they're willing to committ resources to the game.

On the other hand, people might be less willing to make that time investment for something that they access for free, and this may be a barrier -- consider the recent thread that talks about, among other things, the intimidation factor associated with the size and quality of Forge discourse. The same thing may be discouraging people from Icar, which is sort of complementary in its own way, especially if people feel quanity and quality are combined in an intimidating way. Reluctance to admit this fact may manifest in a lamer escuse, such as the "free vs. paid" issue.

Also, I think there is a (correct to some degree, incorrect to another degree) perception that with a free game, people don't feel the need to edit themselves as much as they would have to in a commercial work. After all, if you have to slog through a ton of crap to get to the interesting bits, what right do you have to complain, given it's free? Consider the way many people percieve fan fiction versus "real"or "official" fiction set in a given universe or setting.

Hell, a prejudice against free stuff might more be a sort of consumer-based understanding of and over-emphasis on Sturgeon's Law. After all, 90% of published (rather than free) fiction may be crap, but if it is, at least you have more of a right to complain if you paid for it. Some people may eschew free material because they feel (wrongly) that their right to critique it is less because they're getting something for nothing, because the time cost is often subconciously resented by people if they don't like something but doesn't often come up because of our consumerist culture. (That is, time may be money, but money means more than time, culturally speaking.)

Regardless, all of the above is less a critique of Icar than thinking about what goes on when one decides whether to invest time in a game, using Icar as an example... (Tho I must admit the size of Icar, rather than it being free rather than commercially published, has kept me, personally, away from it, which I am willing to admit is possibly a prejudice of a whole other nature. But that's somewhat off-topic...)

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Rob,

A quick clarification:

My problem with POD is that the quality of the finished product appears to be questionnable. I shall certainly look into Lulu and the others (I've been keeping check on the threads elsewhere) and bear it stiffly in mind.

Some technology has changed greatly in the last year or two. I highly recommend Express Media, which did an outstanding job with My Life with Master, and whose proofs for Elfs are stunning. They use ink, not toner, and high-quality paper. My view on POD was the same as yours until I saw how good these books were. You should also contact Ralph Mazza (valamir) regarding the printer he used for Universalis, who also did a great job.

More importantly, I think you're still struggling with a couple of conflicting values, internally. I'm making that judgment based on phrases like these, which I've somewhat unfairly snipped apart and dissected:

I would very much like to turn the tide and change public opinion of free games.

Wait a minute, Rob! "Change public opinion?" That's nuts, my friend - raving loony. You can change what people see when they arrive at your site, you can change how you act when interacting with them, and you can change what you're offering. You can't change who they are before they get there.

Ideally people's prejudices would not stop them from clicking that link when they see it.

Which is only to say, "Ideally, people wouldn't be prejudiced." And you know what? I agree. That would be wonderful, a prejudice-free world. If everyone thought just like me, things would be great!

I used to hitch-hike a lot. I mean, a lot, and over long distances all 'round the U.S.A. One thing I very swiftly learned was that a car which passed me by rated no attention from me whatsoever. Right - the only ones to care about were the ones which stopped. All the others were furniture.

It seems to me as if you are getting a little stuck on the ones who aren't stopping, and even on the stuff they shout from the windows as they go by.

To extend the analogy, can you do something to increase the stopping rate? Sure - but it has nothing to do with magically "changing the opinion" or "eliminating the prejudices" of the world of car drivers. It has to do with your own comportment, and it works, a little bit.

But most important is to recognize that the car which passes you by based on whatever internal reasoning or "reasonsing" on the driver's part, is no particular concern of yours.

I feel that those who have voiced their noise (as Ron puts it) are just the noisy minority who represent the quiet majority. If there is anything I can do to attract the quiet majority and sway their opinion, then I am all ears!!!

This is, unfortunately, babble. I'm pretty sure that you are typing without thinking. A minority cannot represent the majority; they are opposed terms. And your perception that the vocal people represent a bunch of silent people is frankly, paranoiac. Why not assume the opposite, that the noisy folks represent only themselves, and that the quiet folks out there are actually already agreeing with you? Whoosh ... all that sense of "being misunderstood," and the need to "change the public opinion," just evaporated.

I'm being kind of harsh with you, Rob, but there's a reason. The Icar site gets a huge number of hits; you are successfully attracting people. It's definitely time to consider what you want to do next with the game, and what your goals are as a publisher. But it strikes me that you might have missed the key point of my previous post, which I'll quote here:

Make a decision about whether to charge for the game completely independently of such input. If you choose to keep it free specifically to spite these people, then you are just as enslaved by their opinion as if you had charged for the game to please them.

... You publish a game - decide what you want to do with it.

Best,
Ron

[talysman]

playing off of some of the ideas in Kirt's comments, I'm wondering if the "prejudice against free stuff" is really as widespread as feared. sure, it's true that there's something called "perceived value"... when distributing a game or other product professionally,, there's a certain range of prices where increasing the price increases sales, because the customers think the product is of higher quality.

however, people like free stuff; they like free pens and calendars distributed as advertising, they like "free gifts" as incentives to buy cereal or other products. and more recently, they seem to like downloading free songs and video. even if we rule out piracy, we have several examples of popular Flash animation or other video being passed around for free, so much so that it starts getting incorporated into commercial media (like Jon Vietch's "spongemonkeys" showing up in that Quiznos commercial, or the popular "dancing baby" of a few years back getting into Ally MacBeal.) there's also people recording and distributing their own music, like the Interrobang Cartel project I've been involved in.

several years ago, I went on a search for alternate rpgs and looked at what was available (and, as a result, eventually found the Forge.) I was not turned off by free rpgs because of their freeness; on the contrary, I liked good, free rpgs. I did *not* like poorly written free rpgs, nor did I like free rpgs that looked mostly like commercial rpgs, such as the tons of free fantasy heartbreakers floating around out there.

so my opinion is that people who are truly prejudiced against free rpgs are a highly vocal minority, not the majority at all, and shouldn't be a reason to worry. the print-versus-pdf issue, which affects non-free pdfs as well, is something seperate and worthy of thinking about; but, as Kirt pointed out, Lulu.com seems to be the perfect solution to this problem for completely free rpgs, with other POD printers like RPGmall.com perhaps being a better solution for actual commercial ventures.

[brainwipe]

Some wonderful comments, I hope I do them justice:

Ron, I'm perfectly allowed to be a raving looney, I come from a place that spawned Monty Python. ;-) Thankyou for being harsh, it's sometimes the only way to get through to the likes of me.

Why not publish it for money? Mostly because I have enough money as it is. I earn plenty and publishing an RPG won't scratch the surface. I'd rather spend my time writing and improving the game. I'm not making it free to spite anyone or to point the finger at those who do publish. Perhaps you could argue that it's a form of laziness. I am not publishing for money because it's not worth the effort. As talysman illustrates, it's rather nice to have free stuff.

You're right about my odd crusading ideas about changing public opinion. Having re-read that, it's madness.

Xiombarg has a good point that Icar is large. Very large. Purely out of interest, I counted the number of pages you could feasibly print: 424. 189 of which are required to play. This is off-putting and I am currently writing a Lite version, my target for that is just 30 pages including everything.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

[Bill Cook]

Hello, Rob.  Thought I'd share my opinion as someone who's downloaded Icar but is ignorant of publishing.

I clicked off a link in your signature a few months back.  Most other games seem to have Fantasy settings, and I was interested by the Sci-Fi tag.  I downloaded Elements, Equipment, Society and Strings (page count: 205), but I never read any of them.  I did explode some of the .JPG's.  That's kind of how I read comic books: drink in the pictures with my eyes and skim the text.

Personally, I think PDF's are clunky compared to books, and there's a negative kind of gratification with making a download, for both consumer and publisher.  i.e. "Hell, I pulled it down.  Whatever it's going to do, I expect it to do itself, just like everything else on the internet."  To contrast, forums have been an excellent format for engagement, IME.

I did this for Great Ork Gods, too.  I got excited, reading about feedback from playtesting, clicked the link to the site and downloaded the game text.  But I never read it.

I think it's good to require an investment.  I assume that your ultimate high would be a group of gamers pulling out Icar and having a great time learning to play it.  I see a target for you being gamers who've had their fill of Fantasy and are up for something different, but still RPG.  That's the moment in a group's discussion you want someone to pull out a sharp-looking, hardbound volume of your core rules and say, "Why don't we try this?"

I'm sure I still won't read the PDF of Icar rules I downloaded.  But if you had a link I could click to pay you $10-15 and receive a rulebook in the mail in 3-5 days, I'd do that just to see if I liked the game.  Call me crazy.

[brainwipe]

Thanks Bill, it doesn't matter if you're crazy or not. Being a gamer, your opinion is just as valid. Perhaps having a printed version for the next version (3.5) might be possible. I appreciate that downloading pdfs and then trying to convince a gaming group to play is quite difficult. Not sure how to combat that.