God/god of the game.

[RDU Neil]

Here's the contrast: the GM, while playing a vitally important role in RPG play, should never take center-stage in that play. Her power is severly limited - nothing she does or brings to the table can be allowed to stand unless the players agree it is a good idea.

This is a very good point.  Although, Total Party Kill is probably not every player's dream and I've only done it once.  But even though they were not happy with the event... I was not blamed for the event (luckily, I started rolling dice out in front of everyone when things started to get realy dramatic)... so yes, it was with their approval.

And the mileage we've gotten out of that event has been phenominal... it changed my entire campaign, for the better, even while I, as the GM, miss those characters tremendously.

But the words' "center stage in that play" really wring true to me, I'm a "type of"  set designer, the director, the script writer...but I am NOT the actors on the stage... I provide bit part actors for the Players to work and bounce off of...but the story is not about them...even if they are tremendously powerful in the play.

Yeah, I totally get the feeling here that using the word "god" gives everyone pause.  It was meant to.  But I feel that "god" means having domain over distinct and finite spheres of influence.. not like God at all!  And as GM's sphere of influence is the set, the 'basic' script and how it is presented as work in progress.

Thanks Gordon for saying what I was trying to say much better.  There is a real reason I sling paint for a living, not words.

Hey Storn... one of the things that I should point out from our experience gaming together, is that the "god" thing can go to far, and it is important to recognize this.

Both of us are guilty of times when our games were not at all about the players, but about world building, with the players as mere audience or whatever.  We were going to tell our story, and the players were just along for the ride.

This is "god" getting out of control... when the setting and outcome as conceived by the GM over ride what the players want to do.  

It's all communication in the end.  Sometimes the players are given free reign, and don't do anything because they aren't up to taking on the mantle of creativity... so the GM steps in with events, challenges, whatever.  Good god.

Sometimes the players are up to the creativity, and the GM steps on this, because the GM has a place to go and isn't interested in what they want.  Bad god.

It happens in degrees in all games, and the point is to be aware, and admit when it is happening.  The GM, when frustrated, needs to take a back seat to the players... something that "GM is god" doesn't imply very well, and probably why it raises hackles.

Example:  Players are enjoying having their characters sit around a tavern and hit on the barmaids, tell tall tales, etc.  The GM has this whole adventure written out that starts with "When the players leave the tavern..." only the players aren't leaving.  All the players are laughing and joking, having a good time as players and in-character... but the GM is frustrated and wants to "get on with it."  

Bad god GM:  "Ok ok, unless you want to do anything important, I'm going to cut ahead to the wee hours of the morning when you are heading home..." and the players all shrug and go along, but they aren't really smiling and laughing anymore, not really interacting, but instead just looking at the GM and waiting for what is thrown at them.

Good god GM:  Just melts into the background.  Watches the players to see if they start to lose interest in the laughing and joking... if not, plays up the roll of a bartender or another NPC to be a part of the game... maybe just keeps up running description of the shifting bar scene through the night, adapting his plan so that the encounter outside the bar comes inside for a drink, catching the eye of player... or not... that is up to the players.  

We both have to be honest about where we have been the Bad god GM in this case... forcing our events and timeline on to the players... misusing our authority as GM.  I'm sure it will happen again... but I just feel it is important to recognize why it is important to be careful with the "GM is god" statement, 'cause it can lead to really bad, dysfunctional games.

[Ian Charvill]

The GM is a god thing reminded me of something Marco used to say, back when he was a regular (ou est les Marcos d'anton).

He used to write about players buying into the GMs intellectual property.  It's a style of gaming.

[Emily Care]

Hello Storn,

In my opinion M.J. and others have nailed it: "gm as (little-g)god" is one variety of narrative power or gm-task distribution. Man, I wish there was a swankier name for what all that implies. Diegetic power? Ack.  In gm-as-god, the DM gets the lion's share of rights and responsibilities as M.J.'s list shows.

I'm not sure if this was the thread you were thinking of, M.J., but John LaViolette analyzed how gm tasks break down in the thread gmless gaming techniques.

Regards,
Emily Care

[Callan S.]

Hello,

Thanks, M.J. As I was reading these posts, I was thinking, "Didn't I handle all that with the concept of 'GMing-tasks' as opposed to 'the GM'?"

The current summary of my thinking about that, in rather sketchy form, may be found in a section of the Narrativism essay.

Best,
Ron

I was actually going to say, just as much as Ron hates the idea of 'GM-less' play, as in there being no GM like power anywhere and that being untrue, the opposite applies (in my opinion).

In other words, just as no GM just means GM power is spread amongst all present, actually having a GM doesn't mean he has ALL the GM power. It's all still spread around all present, it's just that he has the swell of it. Really everyone at the tables 'a god/GM', it's just that they might have decided to hand over power to one of the other gods at the table.

[pete_darby]

In my opinion M.J. and others have nailed it: "gm as (little-g)god" is one variety of narrative power or gm-task distribution. Man, I wish there was a swankier name for what all that implies. Diegetic power? Ack.

A while ago there was a challenge for most pretentious change to standard gaming vocabulary, where I named the GM "Genius Mundi", spirit of the world.

But every time I bring it up, the better this joke title sounds to me... and it has the advantage of having the same acronym as the standard title...

And it can aply to the aggregate judgement of the players as a whole with ditributed duties: Genius Mundi as esprit du corps...

[Rob Carriere]

And it can aply to the aggregate judgement of the players as a whole with ditributed duties: Genius Mundi as esprit du corps...

That's so painful that it's good.

Thanks for the wince :-)
SR
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