Using a survey.

[Mourglin]

Hello all,
  This is my first visit to the Forge and my very first post.  I am pleased with the volume of discussions going on here and was referred by a kind gentleman that designed the game TROS.  Anyways I have begun the daunting task of putting together my notes, ideas, and experiences into a system I plan on publishing.  First I must detail my motivations for taking the leap to design, in that it will help define the direction I see taking to reach a finished manuscript.  
 To begin with, I have always been a system tweaker and this has become more and more involved as I get older and perhaps wiser in some sense.  Over the years, I have become more and more disastified with RPG's in general for a number of reasons.  Much of this has to do with my experiences as a game store retailer (1994-2003).  I have seen a lot of garbage products make it to publication.  Many of these games (IMO) shared similar qualities:  poor editing, cumbersome mechanics, regurgitated reprints, recycled art and in many ways poor designs that lacked sufficient play-testing and thorough analysis.  I believe, and I admit this may be very naive considering the company I am in, that there is room yet for 1 more RPG that was done "right"  ;)  
 I am keenly aware that what (system) is great to one may not be to another and I am sure definition and opinion ultimately come into play and affect game popularity and sales.  But that is the nature of the beast when it comes to games and the cottage industry they fight to survive in.  One shoe doesn't fit all; be as it may, I would like to first create a survey to test the waters in general and get some feedback about what people like and dislike about RPG's, and what they consider important in a game etc.
 So my first step here would be to ask a bit of your precious time first to know if you would be willing to answer any survey, assuming I am in the right place here on the Forge.  Once (if) the survey is forthcoming, I would like to engage in some dialog about it and also share in some depth my philosophy and concepts that I hope to incorporate into my game.  
 Lastly, I know what I want in a finished product, yet I am unsure how to reach those goals from where I stand now.  There are so many questions that need answering and hours of work to be had.  Perhaps many of these questions can be explored and answered before the $$$ is laid down to see the task through.  I have a lot of experience from a retail point of view and as a player/GM in many systems.  I have even had some lengthy discussions with a few self publishers already but I want to formulate a plan of attack before I really get to far into my project.  

Thanks in advance

Best

Mourglin

[Argetlamh]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for your request. Indie Game Design is geared towards submission of playable or at least quasi-playable rules for discussion. Think of it like a writing workshop. You wouldn't go to one of those with mere ideas, but with an actual manuscript. I don't mean to jump on you for this; the mods are just rather strict about keeping discussions in their proper place. Read the stickies for a better idea of Forge etiquette.
Addressing your request though: while the idea has some merit, I can spot some problems right off the bat.
  1. We Forge types are weird. Our idea of a fun RPG is not necessarily the average gamer's idea of a fun RPG.
  2. A survey, to make full use of the Forge community, will need either many specific questions regarding various bits of game design (creative agenda, GNS, actor v. director stance, theory-of-the-moment, et cetera) or large amounts of empty space for a essay-length answers. Either way, it seems it will be quite the undertaking.
  3. Before anyone can help you, they need to know what you want to accomplish with your game. It will help if you are fairly fluent in Forgese. I recommend reading some of the essays to get a grasp of the argot here.

Best of luck,
-Dan Vince

[Mourglin]

Dan
    Thanks for your reply.  If not this forum where should I open a discussion concerning my game?  If there is a more appropriate place to carry such topic could someone please show me the light.  I understand the draw backs of any survey, and I wanted to get some reaction/opinions from who is willing to give them about very simple questions.  I do  not intend to realign my general design goals based upon a web survey.  It would be used to help me decide some things that I am on the fence about, or have my own premonitions about.  I would never expect anyone to write essay level answers nor is that what I am asking for (but from the posts & threads I have seen here, it  would not suprise me) to simple 1-2 line answerable questions.
  I had planned on laying out my ideas (which I have some outlines done already put to a working 1st draft) after I have received some surveys back.  I do not want to taint anyone's answers based upon things I want to see or not see in the survey results.  If no one else responds to this thread, that will have answered my first inquiry cocerning doing a survey at all.  


Best

John Madison

[M. J. Young]

John--

I'm a bit unclear exactly what you have in mind; however, depending on what it is you're after, this might be the right forum for it--you just have to approach it the right way.

The right way would be something like this:

I'm working on a game, and I'm trying to accomplish this, specifically. The core of the game works this way. I'm trying to decide whether to do it that way or the other way, or whether I'm completely off base here. What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of these approaches, or what alternatives are there? Are there any games you would recommend that have tackled this problem in a manner which might be helpful for me to see?[/list:u]
Keeping the focus narrow helps enormously; it's all the difference between "Read Dungeons & Dragons and give me your feedback" and "I'm working with a hit points system, and trying to decide how likely it should be for an ordinary sword to kill an ordinary person, given these assumptions."

Now, if what you mean is that you're interested in getting some general feedback on a lot of issues about game design without telling us anything about your own design concepts, the best thing would probably be to scroll down to Contacts, and post a thread that says you're looking for people willing to participate in a survey about their game preferences, which you would conduct by e-mail. People can then be directed to contact you through your Forge e-mail address (which means you don't have to list your e-mail address in the post for Spambots to collect) and you can send your questions to them individually.

There are other possibilities, as you might have general questions that could be addressed in, for example, RPG Theory; but "what do you like" is rarely considered a valid question here--what we like individually isn't going to tell you much about how to design a game.

Does that help?

--M. J. Young

[Bluve Oak]

Well, the question is, "are you willing to do a survey?"

I for one certainly am. Please go ahead and sock it to us.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Welcome, John. Here's the lowdown, from the content moderator for the general forums of the Forge.

First, if it's discussion you're looking for, you're in the right place. Bring up any issues about your game, and we'll go for it.

Second, please do not conduct any sort of survey here. You'll get better, clearer, and more focused information from a well-introduced discussion topic. The Forge is about discourse, not opinions, and surveys tend to encourage the latter.

Best,
Ron

[Mourglin]

Ron
 Thanks for your comment.  I will indeed open a new topic and begin the plunge down the rabbit hole of my system.  However I must say that the purpose of my would be survey was to get opinions.  I want to add that I dropped off a stack of them at the local game store in town.  I stopped down today only after a day and had 5 surveys filled out (1 was rudely replied to with profanitities and insults :-\ )  Some of the results were suprising, most were not and reinforcemed my predictions as to the kind of game (FRPG) people like and are willing to try.  
 I will however avoid the "survey" here even though I do think the results could indeed prove usefull for many, not just myself.  But, as you are a moderator and there was no significant interest, I conceed and withdraw my interest in such a survey.


Best

John