"may get stuck" weapons how?

[ZenDog]

Anyway do a Pick use the swing or Thrust motion? it has puncture damage, and puncture damage seems only to be compatiple with thrusting "attack". when look via the damage tabels.

You would I imagine use the swing attack from mass and sheild but the puncture damage.

Pick is a problem becouse its the only "mass" weapon who uses Puncture damage, and when looking at the Mass meapon and shield style, a thrust cost one CP to activate.......was it not more natural to use it as a swing when attacking?

I think in this instance the 1 cp for thrusting with a mass weapon relates to a war hammer or somesuch which has a spike on the top, which you can thrust with. Although one handed with a shield wouldn't be much of a thrust. It would I imagine work best as a short 2 handed thrust (which I guess if you could do with a sheild depending on the type/grip). Anyway thrusting is a type of manouver, puncture a type of damage.

So you swing a pick and it does puncture damage.

[bergh]

"So you swing a pick and it does puncture damage."

yes this of of course what i imagine, but not the rules.

But the "Swing/cut attacking" only uses hit location that the "cutting damage" tabels cover.

and piercing damage tabels only cover the Thrust attack locations.

see my point? you got a "swing/cutting" weapon who uses Piercing damage table, and piercing damage table uses location you cannot hit with a swing/cut!

[ZenDog]

I see then just extrapolate, a level 1 woumd is a level one wound and level 5 a level 5 irrispective of the type of damage. Use simmilar levels of BL as a thrusting at the same  level and the same shock value as thrusting. The rest is just description.  A level 5 pick in the head will be a messy instant death.

[bergh]

yes, that is the way to do it, but troublesome and slow, then the mechanics is like this:

The player it targeting Location V (cut) with his pick. thenthe d6 for specific location is rolled. its a 5=shoulders.

then i have to find a relevent location on the puncture damage....looking...looking..there are no shoulder location in the piercing tabels, then a chest hit must be the right one....

this means that a person with a pick makes a big Vertical swing with his pick and hits him in the chest....this does not seem right.

Think its an error in the rule-system....

[ZenDog]

Again it depends on the wound level. I would say a level 1 wound on the shoulder, it swungs through taking a little skin slight blood loss, level three it swung through the shoulder ripping out muscle and possibly chipping the bone a definate 'day ruining' experience. Level 5 the spike of the pick enters the shoulder diagonally going through the the bone or the neck or chest, death imminent, weapon stuck.

In other words just guess withinin the level 1-5 structure what a swinging puncture would do to the same areas that a blunt or cutting swing can hit. It shouldn't slow you down to much.

In fact you could actually make your own swing/puncture damage table in advance then it wouldn't slow you down at all.

[bergh]

yes, what i need to do is a Swing location/puncture damage Location table, for this kind of weapon type.

think i will right though it! anyway as i can see puncture damage is alot worse on the same level then cuts.

[Salamander]

Hmmmm - interesting Slaamander - different experience than what I've had, but then again, I am pretty much the definition of amatuer at the moment, and fight WAY too linear-ly, so thrusting weapons tend to get me good.  Still, in your experience, do the mass weapons match the range of the arming sword, for both cuts and thrusts?  That was more what I was intending as the "standard" for medium-reach weapons.  If so, then I need to start re-thinking some of my fighting style.

Well, it all depends. If you are using rapiers or other thrusting weapons, you tend to fight in a linear fashion, but with some work esp. from Agrippa and Destreza you can be taught to fight with lateral movements and foot work as well, which can mean the difference between pain and gain. If you fight in a linear fashion using the longsword (at least the German Schüls) you will find yourself on the recieving end far too often.

I have seen some of the more senior scholars open with a cut from about six or seven feet away using an arming sword. With proper foot work I have hit people from ten feet away with a long sword.

I have not had a ton of experience with mass weapons, but I have found that you need to rely fairly heavily upon your shield and timing to get past a sword. Often you will find that mass weapons do seem to be slower mostly due to the fact they are mass weapons with a very out there balance. I have found that when I use a mass weapon (axe simulators, mostly) I tend to want to keep tighter control of it for faster recovery by pulling in the swing a bit. Whether this is a beginner's mistake on my behalf, I can't say as we are not going to do axes in a serious fashion for awhile. Armed with an axe and against an arming sword you need a shield if you want to win. It is far too easy for a skilled swordsman to notice your swing coming and void from the blow and even counter with a cut to your arm or head while you set the mass weapon in motion. I can even cut the arm of a few of my fellow scholars before they can get a sword in motion.

Also, bergh, if they insist upon thinking that mass weapons are the be all and end all, steal inititative from them, or counter. A good Cut & Thrust sword has a bang up Defensive TN, as does a longsword. Use it to your advantage and their surprise.

[Turin]

Another thought to the getting stuck idea - Would not the pick risk getting stuck with a sucessful block by a shield?  Pehaps something if the sucesses are equal, of if the attacker ties or wins by 1 or less.   The attacker loses the use of his pick, the defender loses proper use of the shield, so the defender has more of an advantage.

[Kaelin]

Salamander - "If you fight in a linear fashion using the longsword (at least the German Schüls) you will find yourself on the recieving end far too often."

 Yeah, that's my problem exactly - I dunno, I hust can't seem to get used to the side-step - every now-and-then, I can time it right, and then it works REALLY well - I'm also REALLY out of practice at the moment (I used to live in Jersey, and practiced with several of my friends fairly regularly - moved down here to virginia in June, and havent quite gotten together a core swordfighting group yet).  From what you've described, though, REQUIRING a shield to get within an armingsword's reach in order to attack with a mass weapon, it sounds like there is a decent disparity in reach - hence why I suggest using the "short" descriptor for mass-weapons.  Perhaps using an additional range-descriptor, such as very close, would suffice for the shortsword, while hand continues for use with both daggers and kicks/punches.

[Brian Leybourne]

I say it's a thrusting/puncturing attack. If you search through the forum, you'll find this has come up a couple of times before.

May get stuck? I dunno, get the character to make a ST roll against a TN of 8 or get stuck. Stuck weapons must be either relinquished or wrenched free on subsequent exchanges with the same roll. How's that?

Brian.

[Salamander]

 Yeah, that's my problem exactly - I dunno, I hust can't seem to get used to the side-step - every now-and-then, I can time it right, and then it works REALLY well - I'm also REALLY out of practice at the moment (I used to live in Jersey, and practiced with several of my friends fairly regularly - moved down here to virginia in June, and havent quite gotten together a core swordfighting group yet).  From what you've described, though, REQUIRING a shield to get within an armingsword's reach in order to attack with a mass weapon, it sounds like there is a decent disparity in reach - hence why I suggest using the "short" descriptor for mass-weapons.  Perhaps using an additional range-descriptor, such as very close, would suffice for the shortsword, while hand continues for use with both daggers and kicks/punches.

In Virginia there are several groups, including ARMA. Head over to

http://www.swordforum.com/ to see about potential training partners

or

http://www.thearma.org/ to see one of the many organizations.

There are a lot of options, you just have a bit of time hunting the folks down.

In regards to the pick:

I think that a TN of 8 would be a good thing, but only on those hits where the pick has struck something solid (bone or metal) or has become stuck between things (ribs, rings of maille or gaps in harness)

[bergh]

when are ARMA going to expand to Denmark....?

sorry total off topic post.

[Salamander]

when are ARMA going to expand to Denmark....?

sorry total off topic post.

Hey, it's your thread! Why don't you drop them a line and see. They already have several members from Norway and Sweden. You can also go back over to myArmouory.com and ask in the off topic forum.... There are several European (Scandinavian) posters there. It'll boost your post count too!

[Edge]

bergh
one of my players just got back from Denmark...he was born here in australia but his family was from denmark

i know totally off topic but hey bergh started it :)