Just saying hi, and a question about my game.

[Chaopsychotic]

Hello. I just recently found this website and thougt I would present my idea for a game. I am starting to work on a long term RPG for a computer but I am thinking about making it "paper and pencil" although I am not sure how complicated my algorithms will be. I have just started the game so I only have a few of the concepts down.

1) My main concept is that the game will be skill based instead of class based. So that the more  you train something the better you will become.
On that same note, the I will make it so that skills atrophie after use, which I am not sure how I could implement in paper and pencil.

2) Another idea key to my game is that I am going to use streams which is what I am calling them. They are going to be like the life force the flow of magic and chakra. They are the latent forces withen everyone kinda like how in most games you have basic stats.

3) For the final product I am going to try and make this into a mutable world for either a single player RPG or an MMORPG. But I have decided that it will be a while before I get there so I am not worrying about that.

But anyways so my main question is do you think it would be possible to have put this into a half way point paper and pencil game. Or maybe simply use computers in the group settings to simply run the calculations.
So what do you think the best media would be to present this sort of a design would be?
I will present more information on my game as I come up with/ program it.

-Till next time,
-Gabbie

[Ben O'Neal]

If you want the game to be able to be played "tabletop", you're better off making the mechanics simpler, and avoiding any calculations more complex than addition and subtraction (ok, maybe some basic multiplication and division too).

If it's simple enough to play with dice, it's simple enough to convert to a PC game, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Just look at Baldur's Gate and NWN -both use AD&D which is simple enough to play with dice, and both are successful PC games.

As per what sort of media would be best for your design, I can't answer that question based on what you've presented. All i know is that you have some nameless game concept that uses skills and attributes (which you call streams). Many games are "classless", and hell, for all the information you've given you could be describing MY game (Eclipse), as well as at least five hundred others.

However, whilst coding the mechanics would be useful for testing them, I'd strongly suggest avoiding any sort of design that requires computers in a LANesque setup, if only to avoid players getting distracted by the myriad of things to do on a PC when the spotlight isn't on them.

Tell us more about what your game is about, and we'll be better able to answer your questions. For example: What do players do in your game? (trust me, if I didn't ask that, someone else would have). What are the concepts that you want in play -such as magic, societies, combat, plots, etc? How will your mechanics address these concepts? You've already mentioned that you want your skills to atrophy, so why do you want this? What concept is this function supposed to mirror? If you answer these questions I think you'll find the answers to your questions.

Coming back to your skill atrophie thing, I see the potential for players ensuring that they use all their skills regularly just to avoid having them atrophy, and thus the mechanic may never come into play, as players would constantly be trying to avoid it. Is this what you want? If it isn't, then drop the concept. if it is, then develop it.

But tell us more, and we can provide better and more useful feedback.

-Ben

[JamesSterrett]

3) For the final product I am going to try and make this into a mutable world for either a single player RPG or an MMORPG. But I have decided that it will be a while before I get there so I am not worrying about that.

I believe you're making a big mistake here.  Single-player focused and MMO focused designs need to be very different.  A single-player RPG needs to focus on making one player's experience continually Cool; the MMO version needs to keep many player's experiences Cool simultaneously.  These are *not* goals that align very well, especially once you get players in conflict, either directly (PvP combat) or indirectly (players competing to grab resources of whatever kind - experience, money, monsters, whatever).

Compare Morrowind to Everquest.  Both are very popular and have done a fine job in their respective niches.

Yet would Morrowind be very good as an MMORPG?  Probably not.  Single-player CRPGs can build intricate networks of plot and setup to keep the player engaged.  Would Everquest be as much fun without the zillions of other humans in it?  Strip away the human interaction, and it gets a bit flat, because the large numbers of players keeps you from building that network of plot and setup.  (NWN, from this perspective, is a single-player game.  While it rocks in multiplayer, it does so best in a party-based mode - in essence, a single player-plot-entity moving around the world, while the MMOs have large numbers of player-plot-entities moving around, triggering various interactions at random times in a disconnected manner.)

Therefore, I suggest you choose *now* and focus your efforts on one or the other.  (That doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, do pen-and-paper testing of your system.)

If you think I'm wrong on this, and have a system to make a game work equally well in MMO and single modes, then I await your reply correcting me.  :)

[Chaopsychotic]

Well first and foremost. I am just starting this game so I dont have things really set in stone yet. I do know I am going to be using tree structures to represent skills. Like under the life stream there will be other streams such as the strength, stamina, dexterity etc etc. While the magic stream will focus on the inate abilities to channel elements, magic itself and the sort. Chakra will be focused around special abilities and the use of chi.

As for the computers aspect I might only use one simply to keep track of information. I am pretty sure that I would not be using a lanesque setting and if I did it would only be to control the game while the people played it.

As for what do players do. Well that will depend on the media of the final game I decide to put it into. As for combat, everything you do will effect how much "experience" you gain with various skills and such you use. Again using a tree structure so that all required aspects of a skill level up as well. As for the atrophy, I am doing that to simulate what happens when you stop using skills. Like if you get into a situation where your mage cant usemagic for an extended period of time. Or like if you get stuck in jail for a period of time without training. etc etc. Mainly to make players keep on training and this prevents people from spreading their skills TOO far apart as it would be harder to keep them at higher levels.

I think that in my game I am going to use magic as a replacement of technology. Of course it wont be able to provide for everything but it will be making simple substitutes for some technology. Like fire spells would be used inside of engines instead of gas, and that sort fo thing. The technology would still be limited as in around our 1800's time period of technology to allow for plenty of mystery and adventure int he world. I am not sure how I am going to implement the social structure yet as I am still working on my streams right now. I will put a link to my information once I can find a place to put it online.

As for whether or not to make it MMO or single. I still think I have plenty of room for change as I am only making a basic engine right now. I will of course have to make a decision sooner or later but I think I am going leave that in the air for suggestions for a while yet.

And hopefully I will be able to share more information soon as I think I have some good ideas for this game that I have yet to conceptualize.

Till next time,
-Gabbie

[Shreyas Sampat]

Hello, and welcome to the Forge!

I'm going to paraphrase some comments Justin Dagna made recently on another forum, because I feel that his point is extremely relevant here, and he has presented his point in a far more accessible way than I could. His original post is here.

RPGs - games of any kind, really, exist to satisfy desires. Like tools, they do approximately one thing. The best RPGs do that thing well.

When you set out to design a game, you need to decide, before you do anything else, what you want that game to accomplish; the design goals for a tabletop game, a solo CRPG (I don't believe that such a thing exists, incidentally), and a MMORPG have very different needs to satisfy. If I were to make an analogy with tools, one would be a saw, another a hammer, the third a screwdriver.

You don't set out to design a tool saying, "I want this tool to have this kind of rubber handle and make this noise when I drop it on the floor." You set out to design a tool saying, "I need a thing that will help me fasten pieces of wood together with nails," or "I need a thing that will help me make one piece of wood into two." Similarly, it's not immediately productive to start designing a game saying, "I want there to be these races in my game, and magic in my world works like this, unless your game's about those things, like Ars Magica, for instance. I don't know precisely what you do want to say...but those aren't it.

If you do start designing a game/tool saying, "I want this to make this kind of noise when I drop it on the floor", then you'll get some kind of piece of metal, and maybe if you manipulate it correctly you'll be able to cut pieces of wood with it, or drive nails, or turn screws, but the odds that it will be as good at these things as a saw, a hammer, and a screwdriver are at thir intended tasks is vanishingly small.

So, my point is, if you want to design a game and you want it to work well, you have to make these important decisions - how will the game be played, who will play the game, what will make the game interesting/challenging/compelling, etc - before you sit down and start designing, not after. Saying "nothing is set in stone" in response to those questions is like saying, "I'm going to make a cool shape out of this piece of metal and then see what I can make it do." Frankly, when you say you don't know if you're esigning a tabletop game or a CRPG of some kind, that strikes me as a statement like this: "I'm going to make this tool, but I don't know yet whether spiders or people are going to use it."

I encourage you to keep working on your game, to complete it and publish it in whatever form you decide it should take. But please, make some decisions about it!