Modern firearms - Medieval Plate/chain armour....

[bergh]

Modern firearms - Medieval Plate/chain armour....

How does this work? I know it does not has much with TRoS to do, but i posted it here becouse i know that there are lots of people here with very special knowledge about weapons and armour.

Anyway i really can't judge my self, i live in Denmark [Europe], fire arms are strichtly forbidden, so i can't do test my self.

Does modern firearm just ignore armour or does it "still" resemble some kind of protection?

It could also be importent for a modern TRoS setting.

[btrc]

I think you can get good results if you simply assume modern weapons count as "armor-piercing" vs. these types of armor. That is, the damage of the gun is not affected against the soft and squishy bits inside, but the protecting effect of the armor is reduced more than it would be against modern armors. In EABA, I just say armor-piercing attacks reduce armor by 1d, which in real world terms, is reducing the energy resistance by about half.

I didn't realize guns were that bad in Denmark. As I recall, I visited a gun store in Copenhagen last time I was there, just outside the downtown pedestrian mall, I think.

Greg Porter
BTRC

[bergh]

hunting rifles and shotguns you can buy, if you got a hunters license and a weapon permit, and this is not hard to get, if you got your criminal record clean and your got no "mental illness" and such...and are member of a hunting organisation.
(yes they check such things).

BUT handguns and non-hunting style rifles is a big NO NO.

The idea is that if people don't have guns then the criminals don't need them either when doing a burglary and such, then WHEN the police shows up they are the only one with guns.
It has worked so far......

anyway, thanks for the information. i was thinking that all modern firearms should get +3 dam vs. "ancient" armours.

[btrc]

Brian,
Sounds good, though I think it would be easier to say "armor is at -3" rather than "guns are at +3". The latter means that against an armor of 1 or 2 that the gun does -more- damage, unless you put in a caveat that the gun bonus can't exceed the armor. The other way (making armor at -3) keeps gun damage the same.

And hey, go get a gun! It's empowering, if a bit expensive. A nice pump-action 12ga shotgun is a reliable, multi-purpose weapon (slugs for short range hunting of medium game, buckshot for home defense (unless that is an evil concept), birdshot for bird hunting, armor-piercing discarding sabot slugs for...well, maybe you don't need those...;) It also lets you do your own hands-on research, which is never a bad thing.

Greg Porter
BTRC

[bergh]

HEHE I think the only shoot legal in DK for shotguns are buckshoots for bird hunting, who i now can remeber AREN'T shotguns at all, they are just 2 barrels "riffels" don't know the english term.

HEHE you have not idea how strict gun control is in Denmark...

Back to thread:

yes armour -3 would be better...but was also think about just making the armour ½ protection, but would that make "light armours" to powerfull?

[Tash]

I would have modern arms ignore all armor, with the exception of shotgun rounds.  Those will varry a bit as pellets don't retain their energy downrange very well.

But something like a .45 ACP or 9mm handgun round can easily go through several walls in a house, a bit of tempered steel iisn't going to stop it.  The round will go through the armor, through the person inside, and (certianly in the case of the 9mm) exit retaining most of its lethal velocity.  The .45 is a different story, that is a much slower round with much more shock value and will probably spend its energy entierly within the target's soft, mushy flesh.  My guess would be that the round would exit on the opposite side of the body, ricochet of the armor and head right back in.

Actually now that I think more about it it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to say wearing plate armor would ADD a point of damage to handgun class rounds as you would run substantial risk of having the bullet just bounce around inside the armor cutting you to peices.  

Not so with a rifle though, that would go clean through and keep right on going.

As for Denmark's gun laws, I was under the impression that most of the EU had uniform gun laws at this point and that they more or less eliminated civillian gun ownership.  The only nations I can think of as exceptions are Sweden and Switzerland, both of who rely on citizen milita for their army and actually REQUIRE their citizens to maintain proficency with their issued assult rifles and pistols (in the same way Isreal does).

[Caz]

Most modern firearms will easily pierce any medieval armour, but it could put  up a defense against some, slowing or stopping small, soft, or old fashioned low velocity bullet.  
   How you go about it depends on the firearms stats you choose to use.  The ones I use have a +vs AV mod, like half swording, etc.  Which ignore a certain amount of AV, but won't usually completely negate it.

[bergh]

To Tash.

In Denmark we also have a LARGE citizen militia. Sweden don't have a citizen militia, i think you swiched the countrys around.
and we had it since 2nd world war.

Its right you get the same equipment as the millitary, along with a modern assault rifle and ammunition, and then you stash it in your home securily. Then you have to go on some training some weekends and maybe a week in the sommer hollyday..
But as you say yourself, there are coming/is EU rules now, and i can tell you that the Citizen militia is struggeling to survive, i would say that in 15 years it don't excist anymore as I know it now.
But i know many who has joined it and have fun "playing" in the weekends.
BTW the militia is free to join.
AND we still have a normal army, which the manly-sex are DRAFTED (often against there will!), it takes 8-12 months.
Anyway it would seem to many that Me little county with 5 mill people seems rather warlike :-).....remeber that we are the original Vikings...
The swedish were not vikings, they belonged to the more eastern cultures like finland, and the baltic countrys, they just say it becouse they think its cool. The proff is that there actully only VERY FEW archeilogy(spelling) viking founds in Sweden, but in Denmark we have LOTS LOTS LOTS.
Damn i hate the swedes claim that they were the vikings also.

anyways only hunting weapons is legal, and you need to have hunting license, and weapon license.

[Frank]

Hej Brian
Sorry, this is of topic, but I couldn't help it.
I don't know if you haven't been reading the papers for the past 6 month or so, but the drafting has practically stopped. The danish military is in finacial trouble, the funds are directed away from training and drafting.
And concerning the vikings. ALL of the scandinavian countries were vikings, and there are a lot of viking finds in Sweden. Only the south of Sweden was heavily populated, as was the eastern part of Denmark. The vikings were also farmers, and lived in good farming areas by the sea. Sweden was mostly woods, and large parts of Denmark were moors. If you look isolated at rune inscriptions, there have been found a lot more in Sweden, than here in Denmark. But don't lose faith, we ruled parts of Sweden until the 15 century.

Frank

[bergh]

hi Frank

I have read the papers, but i didnot realise that they affectivly has stopped...where are the world coming from.

The viking thing. one of my girlfriend uncles (far out i know), is kinda an expert, he says that they did have a culture that was almost "vikingish", ifact i remeber now that the west cost was "Viking" while the east coast (baltic sea right?), was not viking.

anyway as im not an expert i can't really defend it. :-)

I don't worry about topic jumps, sometimes it gives you large amounts of usefull geek knowledge!

anyway back to topic!

[Irmo]

As for Denmark's gun laws, I was under the impression that most of the EU had uniform gun laws at this point and that they more or less eliminated civillian gun ownership.  The only nations I can think of as exceptions are Sweden and Switzerland, both of who rely on citizen milita for their army and actually REQUIRE their citizens to maintain proficency with their issued assult rifles and pistols (in the same way Isreal does).

Actually, that is a common misconception. Yes, they are required to have assault weapons, but these are to be stored disassembled with the lock in a separate safe from the rest of the weapon. Aside from that, Switzerland has some of the stricted gun laws in Europe -and you better not let yourself be caught with your militia weapons unless on the way to militia duty or a shooting range to practice.

Those militia weapons are certainly NOT meant for self-defense, but only for defense of the country.

Oh, and they DO perform quite regular drills.

(NB: Switzerland isn't part of the EU, and gun regulations in the EU are far from uniform, though some standard restrictions apply)