Grifter (working title)

[Gavinthorne]

I'm a long time gamer recently introduced to this site through SJGames. I've begun development of a game system based on my GURPS Underworld/Star Wars campaign. Lots of mob involvment, hit men, con artists, grifters, etc. I plan to use Blackjack or Craps for task-resolvment and was wondering if anyone has heard of any other systems using these games in this manner.

While I've never played Deadlands, I understand that it has a Poker-based system in addition to dice. Can anyone fill me in on the basics of how that works? I'd like to keep the system as true to the "gambling/grifter" style as possible, allowing players to use "cheats" to beat the House (the GM) and bidding attribute "chips" for task-resolution.

Let me know what you think and I'll post what I've written so far.

[Demada]

Dust Devils has Poker based resolution. Deadlands just uses cards to determine initiative and if a Huckster casts a spell. I would definately reccomend pickup up Dust Devils.

[MPOSullivan]

my RPG, Criminal Element, uses blackjack as a resolution system, and it's created specifically to handle crime and caper type games.  give it a look.  some people really dig it.

[Gavinthorne]

I appreciate the pointer, Zathreyel. My "Grifter" is similar, but thematically different from your "Criminal Element". I'd like to see Grifter as more similar to Ocean's 11, Italian Job or Gone in 60 Seconds (both original and new), Shade, and the Stainless Steel Rat books by Harry Harrison (more conning, less violence) but still drawing influences from Snatch, Lock/Stock, Pulp Fiction, and the other more Dramatically Violent sources of fiction.

I wish I had known about Criminal Element before I started working on my system, as they are pretty close in character-definition. Task resolution is a bit different, however, and I have settled on using mainly Craps over Blackjack, but with the possibility to use both.

Character select traits ("Chips") that define their character, like Strong, Persuasive,  or

Cool as a Motherf*cker

and assign a $$ amount which they use to bet. Tasks are set a difficulty, also in $$ amounts, and if the character wins the dice throw, they collect "Winnings" which are used like your Drama Points but can also be used to make side-bets on the success or failure of other characters' actions. Also, Winnings can be given to other players if their character is in a tight spot (i.e. if they don't have an appropriate trait for the action or have bet all their Chips and lost) as Backing.

Characters also have Grifts, like your Knacks, which define what the character is good at. Grifts are divided into seven levels of ability, each providing a "Cheat" for the character when performing actions directly relating to his Grift. He might get a bonus to the dice roll, be able to discard and redraw a single card, or get free Backing to double his bet at no risk. The system is pretty solid and only needs a bit of tweaking. When I get it typed up, I'll post it.

A player in my GURPS:Star Wars Underworld game wants the setting to be similar to that game, a kind of intergalactic Las Vegas (the Vega System?) where the mob runs the show and grifters are crawling out of the woodwork. As interesting as it sounds, I'm thinking a bit more modern. Any input?

[Vaxalon]

You could compromise, make it a gambling arena that's built in orbit in order to evade Earthbound law...

[DevP]

Speaking of which, Lxndr's Fastlane could work for the feel as well.

So, character traits are defined by a pre-set limit on how much they bet on each round in Craps/Blackjack; and they have to keep winning up to a certain X to get a success? It doesn't seem like this will model short and very difficult tasks; higher X means almost always longer resolution time. (Please correct me if I've misunderstood.) I don't think this is a problem either, though. I think the thematic feel of "difficulty" in this kind of game is raising the stakes higher, trying not to blow it on something stupid.

[Gavinthorne]

Dev, I wasn't able to bring up the link to Fastlane, but I'd love to take a look. However, let me explain the system that I've outlined so far...

Players bid their Chips in a straight Craps "Passline" or "Comeline" bet to determine if they succeed. To explain, roll 2d6, on a 7 or 11 the character succeeds as long as they bid enough Chips to accomplish the task and collects Winnings equal to the Chips bid. If the player rolls a 2, 3, or 12, he "craps out" and fails, loosing the Chips he bid.

On a 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10, the number is recorded (also called a Come Point), character's bid rides, and the player continues to roll the dice. If the player rolls the Come Point number again, the character succeeds (earning Winnings as above); if a 7 is rolled before the Come Point, the task is failed (and the character loses the Chips bid). The number of rolls made until success or failure is achieve determines margin of success.

Also, some tasks may require a minimum bid as set forth by the Dealer to succeed. Breaking down a bedroom door may take a $3, but a solid oak door may take $10-15. If the character bids twice the minimum Chips, he can "Buy the Pot", but doesn't gain any Winnings. If the player doesn't bid enough Chips initially, he can continue making bids and rolling until eventually succeeding. If the character doesn't have enough Chips (or appropriate Chip traits), they simply can't perform the task at hand UNLESS he decides to put forth Winnings to make up the difference.

Winnings can be used to buy back lost Chips on a 2-for-1 basis, to act as appropriate traits on a 3-for-1 basis, or to buy new trait Chips on a 5-for-1 basis. Also, other players may decide to help you out by donating their Winnings for your use as Backing. Whether you win or lose, you owe that player future Winnings for helping you out. Also, players can borrow Winnings from the Dealer and end up in the hole until they earn enough to pay back the debt.

Anyway, in response to the point that Dev brought up, if the player bids high enough in a task that requires a minimum bid, he may automatically succeed. Also, a character's Grifts allow them to cheat at the dice when performing tasks related to their "archetype". However, if the character is lacking Chips for a difficult task then it may take longer to resolve. I don't anticipate this happening too frequently, but I have yet to playtest. The very nature of Craps makes it more likely the character will crap-out before that happens.