[& Sword] Mining the Conan stories for bangs

[Halzebier]

Hi there!

After reading "Sorcerer & Sword", I'm totally jazzed about the genre and have bought a collection of Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories, "The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian" (DelRay 2003), which was rightly recommended around here.

And who knows? Maybe I'll even get my first Sorcerer game off the ground...

And to that end, I'm reading the stories with an eye towards mining them for bangs. I've never run Sorcerer and have very little experience with narrativist games, so I'm worried about running out of bangs, throwing out duds or bangs which are resolved too quickly.

Anyway, I won't bore you with an overly long list of the inspirations I got and am getting from the stories. Instead, I'll just relate my reactions to the first three stories to demonstrate the process.

WARNING: Minor spoilers ahead.

1. The Phoenix on the Sword (where Conan is king of Aquilonia)

My take:
Poor imagery, inappropriate dialogue (e.g. "before the first man crawled out of the slimy sea"), lots of cumbersome exposition (handled by way of the villain explaining things to a henchman) and a vision which feels like a deus ex machina make this an abysmal story. 1 out of 4 stars.

Bangs:
Rinaldo => the PC's enemy turns out to be a truly gifted artist (optionally with his full potential unrealized or past his prime)
the Serpent Ring of Set => a secret (optionally an item) which grants great power over an NPC falls into the PC's hands
Dion => a treacherous NPC (e.g. an ally) gets cold feet and betrays his co-conspirators to the PC

The Frost-Giant's Daughter (where Conan is a mercenary in lands of frost and snow)
My take: The story is all about atmosphere and no plot gets in the way. Simply fantastic! 4 out of 4 stars.

Bangs:
the Frost-Giant's Daughter => a supernatural being toys with the PC as he is hurt and alone

This doesn't seem like a proper bang to me, but I'm somewhat unsure of what to do when a PC loses a conflict where the enemy's goal is to kill him. Maybe the PC is left for dead and then this encounter is run? Or is this heavy-handed GMing?

The God in the Bowl (where Conan is a thief)
My take: The story offers a ho-hum (magic) mystery, a cool sticky situation for Conan and one excellent fight scene: deliciously anticipated, very gory and very stylish. 3 out of 4 stars on account of the fight.

Bangs:
Conan's burglary => while committing a lesser crime, the PC is framed for a greater one by fate (optionally by an employer)

Again, this might be heavy-handed GMing. If the player wants to commit a burglary, it'd be pretty deprotagonising if the GM ruled that he stumbles into a situation which renders the burglary a moot point, wouldn't it?

The story also offers a minor, but cool villain, who has cruelly tortured and maimed a woman who would not betray her lover. I'm sure there's a bang here somewhere.

(Though aiming for the kind of poetic justice this villain has coming - or perhaps Conan does what he does deliberately? - sounds like a recipe for poor GMing. And it's probably not necessary -- I would hope that my players come up with that sort of thing.)

*-*-*

I hope this post hasn't been too much of a personal ramble. Inspiration is a fickle and personal thing – one man's epiphany makes another man yawn or something to that effect.

Regards

Hal

[matthijs]

I found this post very useful, and got some ideas from it for future use in my own campaign. Thanks!

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

One of the difficult things about utilizing literature or movies as inspiration for role-playing is that the actual text of a story/movie does not map 1:1 to the role-playing processes, even if you include character creation, prep, and play.

In other words, what if we played a game which just happened to correspond in all particulars to the content of The Phoenix on the Sword? My point is that the "correspondence" ranges very widely.

It could be that actual play concerned mainly how Conan dealt with the conspiracy and failed, up until that night. The Kicker might be "becoming king." The textual contents of the written story might have occupied the last 5% of play itself.

Or conversely, it could be that most of the textual story corresponds with character creation and prep. Who knows, the Kicker might even be the dream. In this case, the whole of play would concern that single fight.

Finally, is there more than one protagonist, actually? I suggest that this story works best when you consider that Conan and Thoth-Amon are two equally-central and equally-present protagonists, and bear in mind that the two of them have unique and interesting conflicts, with nothing especially against one another.

Any analysis of Bangs, then, has to take these variations into consideration. A Bang exists relative to at leasts one particular protagonist, and relative to how scenes and conflicts are generated during play itself.

Best,
Ron

[Halzebier]

One of the difficult things about utilizing literature or movies as inspiration for role-playing is that the actual text of a story/movie does not map 1:1 to the role-playing processes, even if you include character creation, prep, and play.

Yes. I'm not trying to recreate any of these stories, but merely lift an idea here or there.

For instance, one of the hero's enemies in "The Phoenix on the Sword" is a truly gifted artist whose works are likely to be immortal.

With my current understanding of bangs, I think this would potentially (see below) make for a good bang.

It would force the player to make a statement about his PC's relationship to art (and by extension, to some extent his own). Will the PC kill the artist without qualms? Will he kill him, but honor him in death? Will he spare him? Maim him to take away his ability to create art (e.g. by gouging out a painter's eyes)?

Whatever he does, he makes a statement. This has the potential (see below) to be interesting.

Any analysis of Bangs, then, has to take these variations into consideration. A Bang exists relative to at leasts one particular protagonist, and relative to how scenes and conflicts are generated during play itself.

Yes and that's just my problem. I haven't got a Sorcerer & Sword game coming up, so I can't really do prep, but merely collect ideas with potential.

The whole gifted artist thing will turn out to be a dud if the PC's relationship to art is not interesting to the player. He'll still make a statement, but he will not be invested in it and pass over it quickly, as he should.

Hence, what I have here is to be used with the right combination of PC, player and situation.

For instance, a player might exhibit a desire to portray his barbarian PC as learned, rather than primitive (possibly to make a critical statement about the way pop culture has dumbed down Conan). And that's my cue as a GM: I wait until he really has it in for an NPC, finally corners him and then - Bang! - I reveal the sucker is a truly gifted artist.

Regards (& hoping I haven't got this whole bang-thing backwards),

Hal

[Judd]

Regards (& hoping I haven't got this whole bang-thing backwards),

Hal

Aye Hal,

At what point during the process of playing Sorcerer do you make up Bangs?

I'll tell ya when I do.

1) Decide on, make up world (Humanity, Descriptors, etc.)

2) Think of concepts, put descriptors in place, assign stats, make demons.

3) Make kickers.

4) Write up bangs.


I only begin to write up my bangs when I have the players' kickers all in a row.  If I write up 10, I probably use 3 or 4 and sometimes less with the rest of the bangs coming out through play.

But those kickers have a direct relationship with the players' kickers and descriptors and covers.

Thoughts?

[Valamir]

Hence, what I have here is to be used with the right combination of PC, player and situation.

Judd's right.

You don't really want an index of bangs that you can pull out with the right combination of player and situation.  You want to wait to create the bangs until after you know what the player and situation are.

The risks of doing it ahead of time is not just that you might have the wrong player and it doesn't work, but that you might become too enamored of a bang that you've had on hold for a long time waiting for the perfect time to use it.

[Halzebier]

You want to wait to create the bangs until after you know what the player and situation are.

I guess you're right. I'm new to this thing and operating in a vacuum. Talk about substitue acts...

The risks of doing it ahead of time is not just that you might have the wrong player and it doesn't work, but that you might become too enamored of a bang that you've had on hold for a long time waiting for the perfect time to use it.

I dunno. I don't see myself getting overly attached as I am not committed to a particular outcome -- the openness is just what I'm fascinated by -- and just jot down ideas as fast as they come.

But I guess you're right -- I'd better put this off (or, more realistically, I stop thinking of my notes as "bangs").

Regards

Hal