[Sorc] Ritual Questions

[James_Nostack]

1.  Does striking a Pact entail a Humanity roll?  I would assume so, as it's a "sub-category of Binding" but I want to make sure.

2.  How long does a Contain spell contain the demon?  Indefinitely?  Can another sorcerer (or regular person) bust the demon out?

3.  Punishing removes dice from a demon's Power equal to the number of victories.  It is stated that you can only lower your own bound demon's Power to 1.  Is there a lower limit for an unbound demon, or one bound to someone else?  If so, what happens when Power reaches 0?  Are they unable to use their abilities?

4.  Performing a ritual in combat: does the demon's roll to resist the ritual count as a form of defense (with the usual suck it up rule, and initiative, and all that stuff) or is the resistance assumed to be a "free" roll (like making a saving throw in D&D, which doesn't preclude you from doing something else at the same time)?

Thanks for your time

[Jeffrey Straszheim]

These aren't official:

1.  The rules don't say, but your interpretation is probably correct.  In my games I'm more liberal, and require a Humanity roll based on what you ask the demon to do/

2. Forever.  I'd let anothere sorcerer rolls his Lore against your contain to free the demon.  The rules don't say this, but it makes sense.

3. I don't know.

4. Yes, it is treated as a normal defense.

[angelfromanotherpin]

My take:

1) Yes, Pacting is Binding and provokes a Humanity loss check.  I asked this one a while ago and Ron answered.

2) The duration of a Contain and its susceptibility to outside meddling are set by the definitions of Sorcery and the campaign.  If the Contain is a classic chalk circle, well, they're notoriously fragile and anyone who wanders by might buff it out.  

3) Punishing actually reduces the Demon's Power score, instead of applying penalties to rolls.  I don't think a score can be reduced below zero.  Also, Punishing your own Bound demon is automatically successful, but reduces the demon's Power either by your Will or to 1, whichever is less of a reduction.  This is distinct from Punishing a demon which is not Bound to you, the effectiveness of which is based on successes.

4) Yes, a Demon's resistance to Rituals is a defense action.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

1. Does striking a Pact entail a Humanity roll? I would assume so, as it's a "sub-category of Binding" but I want to make sure.

Yes.

2. How long does a Contain spell contain the demon? Indefinitely? Can another sorcerer (or regular person) bust the demon out?

Contains have no duration. They must be beaten for the demon to escape (or more accurately, to get across; we could be talking about "in" or "out").

Whether beating the Contain destroys the Contain depends on the local definitions and look & feel of sorcery in that particular game.

Can another sorcerer (or regular person) bust the demon out?

Default: no.

However, this is very much subject to that definitions, look & feel thing. For instance, in some group's game, it might make most sense that a sorcerer (for instance) could transport a demon across a Contain with a Lore roll, without destroying the Contain, but a demon would have to beat and destroy the Contain to do it itself.

Similarly, in many games, Lore would be necessary for a person to challenge a Contain on the behalf of a demon, and non-sorcerers have no Lore. But in some other games, maybe the (or some) Contains are so physically defined that Stamina might be perfectly adequate, conceptually, and hence anyone might try it.

Do not read any of this as wishy-washy. Remember that the Sorcerer rules are not simulating in-game reality. They are pure and simply for conflict resolution.

3. Punishing removes dice from a demon's Power equal to the number of victories. It is stated that you can only lower your own bound demon's Power to 1. Is there a lower limit for an unbound demon, or one bound to someone else? If so, what happens when Power reaches 0? Are they unable to use their abilities?

There is no lower limit for unbound demons or demons bound to someone else. When the demon hits Power 0, don't do anything except follow the rules. When the demon tries to use an ability based on rolling power, roll - as if the score were zero.

You know how to do that, right? 0 dice vs. 3 dice means the first person rolls 1 die, the second person rolls 4 dice.

Or if the ability involves adding or subtracting Power, then add or subtract 0 for the roll.

4. Performing a ritual in combat: does the demon's roll to resist the ritual count as a form of defense (with the usual suck it up rule, and initiative, and all that stuff) or is the resistance assumed to be a "free" roll (like making a saving throw in D&D, which doesn't preclude you from doing something else at the same time)?

The former statement is correct. It also applies to resisting commands. I.e., if the demon resists a command with full dice (and we're not yet at the demon's stated action), it has to abort its action.

All of the above answers have one serious, central answer: follow the rules. You never negate any rules in Sorcerer. You don't say, "Under these circumstances, the demon cannot do X," for instance.

And it is a game rule that you must arrive, first through a shared look & feel and later through group-interaction during play, at a set of your-game-specific applications for many of the conflicts during play. Which is different from saying, "Oh just wing it for the sake of Fun as you go."

Best,
Ron

P.S. Jeffrey & angel, good answers!