Combat System Inklings - Part 1

[Paganini]

So, I've had this idea for a combat system bopping around in my brain for a while. The idea is to have the combat system be a sub-module in the overall game. Whenever you get to a fight scene, you kick in the combat rules, which are a sort of entertaining mini-game to be played as an arena for Step On Up. Talking on IRC with Fred and Josh and Shreyas and Raven last night helped me clear up some ideas to the point where I'm actually putting some mechanics down on paper. The combat system is taking shape on my blog and can be viewed here:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/taiji_jian/10491.html

Yeah, this is an announcement post. So, give it a tail of discussion. Has this been done before? Anyone see any potential problems with the play structure? Anyone see anything they particularly like about it?

[Alex Johnson]

Good.  Keep brainstorming.  I immediately like the idea of a pool of dice and dividing between offense and defence.  It has a lot of potential.  Work out some of the snags.  You need to have a tie breaker, you need to have a list of snazzy actions to spend dice on, you need to settle on whether to use attack or defence dice on counter attack (I vote for attack dice), and you need to quantify wounds.

[Paganini]

Cool. Glad you like it. I can't take credit for the whole attack / defense split idea; other systems have used it. I think I'm the first to apply it to combat order and multiple combatants, though.

I do have some of that other stuff (wounds, armor, etc.) thought out, but it exists only in rough notes. It is now lunch break, and I will work on Part 2, which will (hopefully) organize such things coherently. :)

[Hereward The Wake]

Your ideas sound very similar to ideas I was working on a couiple of years ago. What is good about it is that as a mechanic it is pretty simple, but it gives the oppertunity to have many different combinations etc. However I started running into problems whenI got to areas such as counter attacks. In a similar way to you, such as where do the dice come from.
Is one talking about a counter attack being one that is made after an attack, or are you refering to an attack that is made to intercept an opposing attack, whilst also striking the opponent?

Also what about combinations such as weapon and shield/buckler, where one would again attempt 'attack' you opponents attack while launching your own. These sorts of 'real' areas are tricky with sort of system, or at least I found them so, as they do come down to offence/defence factors but are also very largely to do with Timing as a factor.

Have you thought about these areas?

Best
JW 

[Paganini]

Counter attacks are made only after a successfull defense. I think I'm going to go with the "lose one attack die to roll a number of dice equal to your margin of victory" for counter attacks. As far as various kinds of simultaneous attacks and so on, I think the level of abstraction is high enough that we don't have to worry about quite that much detail. IOW, I want to take into acount combat variables (like reach), but I'm not too worried about incorporating *specific maneuvers* into the system.

[Hereward The Wake]

OK
Do you then take into account weapons that can make a transition on range, for example using a long sword and then switching to half swording when closing range?

Also have you considered that a simultanious counter attack is less a specific manuever and rather a tactic, as much as attack or defense is? While I understand that you want the abstarction to keep it simple, players may want to attempt a one time counter.
Just my 2ps worth

JW

[Paganini]

Do you then take into account weapons that can make a transition on range, for example using a long sword and then switching to half swording when closing range?

Not yet... but I probably should. :)

Also have you considered that a simultanious counter attack is less a specific manuever and rather a tactic, as much as attack or defense is? While I understand that you want the abstarction to keep it simple, players may want to attempt a one time counter.

Well, no, I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. How would you imagine this looking during actual play?

[Hereward The Wake]

Well this is where I started having problems, as it basically sets up as a regular attack defence, in as much as that to do a one time counter attack requires that your defense element must be a success  first but you are also countering their attack by hitting them. One solution is that you have to allocate at least 1 more die to defense than attack and that you roll the attack dice at the same time.

To be honest I really don't have a solution for it within the kind of mechanic which is why I moved away from it as a soulution to my system for solving combat, which while effective is to abstract, or at least it is so far! 8')
JW

[contracycle]

The bit I like is having the combat in a minigame box.  The actual mechanics in that minigameare not so important IMO; they could be off the shelf.  What I would like to see more of are your thoughts on integrating the minigame and the maxigame and linking the reward systems through the two.

[Hereward The Wake]

I certainly think that making combat work as a subset of the game is a good idea. It woudl generate a fair amount of crossover in benifits and certainly add to the prestige/prescence and reputation of a PC

JW