Multiple Specialized Magic Cults

[Mike Holmes]

So I'm looking for examples from play of characters that you've played or had in a game you've run that had magic from more than one specialized cult. I'm trying to get a feel for how common this is, first, and, secondly, what sort of combinations have been allowed in play. So everything from the trivial extra sub-cult, or multiple initiation, and extra practices, Torvald alchemy wielding Sword Man worshippers.

I don't know of any Gloranthan ones, so I'll start with a Shadow World one: The character was a worshipper of a mostly theistic Sun Pantheon. The Great God of the Pantheon, Klysus, had a few aspects, most of them with celestial implications (sun, moon, stars, etc). The character was an initiate of the Aspect of Klysus as the Ruler, and subsequently joined another subcult that was actually Wizardry oriented that was numbered by the King's astrolloger advisors. Actually the cult provided one Affinity, and a number of grimoires for magic.

This is one of the few examples that I know of from play of this sort of thing. I hope that I can get some more here.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Janus]

In Glorantha it seems fairly common amongst Heroes (stealing/learning this or that magic/secret from such and such cults). In actual play, the game mechanics make this a very expensive proposition, so I have not seen it done, but my experience with it is limited.

[Mike Holmes]

Thinking specifically of Arkat, perhaps? Yeah, he's the changingest hero ever, I think. :-)

Well, that's one negative. Anyone got a positive?

Mike

[Mike Holmes]

Anybody?

I hate this as a data collection method, because you really can't know if it's just that people aren't seeing it, or that people have never seen this in play.

Hmmm.

Mike

[Lamorak33]

Anybody?

I hate this as a data collection method, because you really can't know if it's just that people aren't seeing it, or that people have never seen this in play.

Hmmm.

Mike

Hi Mike

Its the old HQ/ Glorantha grognard here! You see, the problem with the copious anthropowanking of the Glorantha nut sort of precludes the mixing of the magics in ways you describe, and I will let you have my opinion why, although other more sagely commentators may disagree.

Take the stock Orlanthi guy. We know from page 16 & 17 of Thunder Rebels that anyone who lives near them have 'nothing that they want'. It is also inferred throughout the writings that people will think you are worse than weird. Obviously common magic is the difference here. But like Janus said and you will be aware, its damn expensive to be a magical jack of all trades and most folks when you tell them that their magic becomes active AND cheap if they concentrate they lose interest in being multi-denominational/ multi magic system. FWIW I am not a fan of the 'only active if you concentrate' rule. Fine if you run a gamist Heroquest, but I don't.

If I wanted to have a go at playing a character with Sorcery, for example, then I would probably be more interested in actually creating a character like a western wizard, rather than have my character Ragnar the Storm Barbarian attending a church and picking up a grimoire. Also, pedant no-MGF GM's may well (and with justification) just say thats not really possible for social reasons, as you discussed over on the other thread.

This thread is one that might be well to repeat over on the Yahoo groups, as I would be interested to find out if there are any groups that play this way.  As you will no doubt know what you describe is actually how the examples of play have been written in the rule book (by Greg Stafford himself I believe) and are roundly condemned by the Glorantha community. For myself, I am a great champion for them, because I think that they are the kind of thing that makes Glorantha more accessible, rather than trivialising it as some feel. I feel this way because it is one of several ways that Greg seems to have attempted to bring back to 'general gaming fun' a fantasy world that was rapidly becoming (or had become) a world where only the deeply knowledgeable Gloranthan scholar dare tread.

Anyway, I think I am drifting off topic so I'll close.

Regards
Rob

PS: I understand that Arkat actually renounced his previous religion when he moved onto the new one. I think it did it 5 times, the last time becoming a troll. 

[Ian Cooper]

Hi Mike,

It is an option I encourage in Red Cow, though none of the players have taken it, but quite a few narrator characters have. I wanted Red Cow to have a Viking saga feel, so the idea of warrior-farmers or warrior-jurors appeals to my sense of how this works. So there are Durev-Starkval initiates and Durev-Andrin initiates. Of course these people are concentrated but not multiple devotees. The cheaper mulitple initiation costs when worshipping different sub-cults of the same aspect. Thunder Rebels was the place this mulitple initiation was first encouraged under Hero Wars, so I feel it was introduced because it fitted the setting.

I'm not sure about multiple devotion. It feels difficult to me to split your focus. It is really like having two lovers at that point. But I also tend to have devotees/shaman/adepts as rare in my game

[MrWrong]

Hi Mike

I ran a house campaign set in Ralios for a good eight years. It started off as a pretty open minded Runequest game, influenced by the developments in Glorantha writen up in Tales of the Reaching Moon. The last two years or so were with HW/HQ.

Ralios is an area of Glorantha stuck between the Sorcery using West and the Theist heartlands of Dragon Pass & Peloria (Lunar Empire). Therefore as a area it has a great mix of Thiest and Sorcery using groups. Add to this the fact that it was one of the main stomping grounds of Arkat & Nysalor, whose modern cults posistivly encourage joining other cults we had alot of characters who were more flexiable than their Dragon Pass peers.

For example: Balzart a female Dark Troll follower of Arkat Kingtroll*, who in her career as well as a being a Arkati sorcerer, also was an initiate of Kygor Litor** and got some animist magic because of this. She had also joined a local hero cult, Karia Flamesword a martyr heroine from the Gbaji wars whose fanatical followers sought out and killed in a self-destructive "flaming embrace" the followers of Nysalor.

When the campaign was winding down we were discussing the possibility that Baltzart would either join the cult of Argan Argar, the troll trade god or becoming a shaman. However this was quite a major decision since the characters who would teach her were rival sisters in the local Troll tribe. Learning either would clearly ally Baltzart with one of the sister. In the case of the Argan Argar Priestess it would also involve a gift of a great magic item and marrying the Priestess' son. This was typical of how this character developed, with each new opportunity coming at a clearly explained price.

From character generation
Kygor litor- This is the basic troll religion so no problems here. Membership has many social benefits amongst Trolls, it makes you "one of us"
Arkat Kingtroll. Yes you can be a member of this unorthodox Troll cult, but it marks you out as a bit of a strange one amongst other trolls, and hinders your advance in the all-important social Kygor Litor cult.

Gained during play
Karia Flamesword - Yes you get some pretty powerful magic to use against one group of enemies, but its suicidal and joining this cult has fixed you on one side of the great Arkat/Nysalor conflict. No more typical pc sitting on the fence.

Future possiblities
Argan Argar. Yes this would give you access to Trading/Communication magic, but it has pretty binding social consequences. For example your Mother in Law would always your superior and in the eyes of Matriarchal Troll society be allowed to order you around.

or

Kygor Litor shamanism. This gives you unlimited access to the spirit world and a host of darkness and troll ancestor spirits BUT do want to ally yourself with the less powerful Sister of the Clan Matriarch?

So as you can see every step along the way there we definite choices to be made that had effects on the character's social standing and relationships. It wasn't merely paying the points gets a new bunch of abilities. Quite often I waived the HP cost, making it a special reward for resolving a part of the story. For example joining Karia Flamesword was completely roleplayed out, which was an intense session, were the player had to make the choice whether or not to join the HeroCult or not in the full knowledge that it would make him an active participant in a deadly secret war.

Also the player, who is quite a rules lawyer and not naturally inclined to roleplay***, understands that having multiple cults may broaden the character, but it is at the expense of her being a Jack of all trades and a master of none.

Hope this helps

Regards

:O)Newt



Notes
* The troll version of Arkat
** This was a hangover from RuneQuest where Kygor Litor, the Mother and Ancestor of all Trolls, was a cult that all Trolls had to be a member of and got magic from. So I merely converted the magic Baltzart got from KL into HQ terms.
*** Although HeroQuest has given him a rules framework which has encouraged improvement in his roleplaying.

[MrWrong]

I've just realised that I haven't indicated what level each religon is at. So here we go;

Kygor Litor - Initiate
Arkat- Adept
Karia Flamesword- Initiate.

The future possiblities would be

Argan Argar -Initiate
Kygor Litor- Shaman

As things stand if I was being strict and going by the rules the time demands are already tight, 10% for the Initiate 60% for the Adept. Since every adventure is connected to the character advancing his relationship with the Arkat Cult and understanding its mysterys.

If Balzart takes the Shaman route, which is a 60% time requirement, I would be asking the player seriously how they would build this requirement into their character's story. If the answer  was interesting and fun I would go with it and be less strict about the time requirement. If it was bland and it was obvious that the player just wanted the "kewl" powers of the shaman, I wouldn't allow it. The pragmatic rules approach would be to downgrade the Arkat Adept, to an apprentice, stating that now the character was focusing on the spirit world their practice of sorcery was falling by the wayside.