[Delete] Another Ronnies Feedback Thread

[Frank T]

Delete, by Brandon Parigo, really got me with that teaser and introduction. God has deleted you because you're such a damn loser, and now there's mud oozing out of your arm, and the Devil just paid you a visit and left you a gun. What do you do? Bam! Great stuff.

Now the game is all distributed authoring, full transparency, etc. Personally, I think that's a waste. In Delete, I would love not to know. For this particular set-up, I would love for the GM to just tell me: "You're average Joe. So average it hurts. Write down who you are, one thing you own, and one person that cares about you. Also, write down what it is you could get or do if only you weren't such a damn loser." And that be it, start play. Actor stance. Explore it!

I think the whole process of realization, climaxing in the chat with the Devil, would be much more fun to roleplay if the player doesn't already know what's up with his character. That's just me, of course.

On conflict resolution: Did I somehow miss where the initial conflict points come from? There's some stuff on additional conflict points but not on initial ones. Also, the initiative seems confusing. I have a feeling the conflict resolution is a nice mechanic, but poorly explained. I also don't really see how it fits into the game's premise. Maybe some examples would be helpful.

Thelema sounds nice enough. I like how you oppose the other's Thelema to make them remember you, so the boring people might remember, whereas interesting people won't. Unfortunately, it is never explained how "rolling Thelema" actually works. Gaining Thelema and Devil Props look very nifty, too, although not all examples of gaining Thelema seem to really connect to God's plan for the character ("the Devil promised me a rose garden"?)

The part about finding God is really only brainstorming. I think a developed game would have to provide much more guidance on that part, even if it enforces a variety of approaches. As it is now, an important chunk is just missing. Have you considered some sort of end game mechanic?

Similarly, the Devil could use some refining, though he seems much clearer to me than God at the moment. What about that line of "the Devil tells you there are others like yourself"? Was this going to lead into some sort of crossing the characters' paths? If so, how?

Conclusion: A very compelling concept, some nice rules pieces, a lot of work left. I would love to see this game developed further.

- Frank

[TonyPace]

It looks great. I really liked the high concept situation and idea too, but .....

as I tried to make a game out of it in my mind it kind of fell apart.

I couldn't see anything about how to gain conflict points at all (found it later, but there you go). The whole conflict points mechanic seemed pretty opaque to me as well. There's no guidance about what other people's Thelema might be, and the weaker willed they are the more easily they remember you? Thelema tests are just straight up rolling, no SiS? Who decides if the gun misses its intended target?

I also hated the name Thelema (bad memories), which I think influenced my reading from the first moment it popped up. This probaly isn't fair, but for me at least it needs disclaiming.

[Brandon Parigo]

Delete was a really fast brain dump.  It is very incomplete and has a bunch of holes in it from where I added ideas as I went along with the intention of changing things, which never got changed due to having to stop work 19 hours before I was done. 

Here are a couple rules clarifications:

Conflict Points:  You have a CP for every thing written down on your character sheet that you can bring into a situation.  In my newest version of the rules I call these Facts.  So a Fact about the character would be "I work on computers for a living".  This would generate a conflict point everytime that comes into a conflict, either at the start or during the conflict (they are very close to Traits in DitV). 

Conflict:  Conflict works by each person on their turn spending a CP to say something that their character does, and that thing is a Fact about the setting.  Something that is completely true, unless someone else spends one of their conflict points to counteract it.  Conflicts continue until it ends (everyone but one is out of CP).  CP can be gained during the conflict by using items and things around the character. 

Thelema: Thelema is a dice pool that consist of every CP that your character has.  So everything on their sheet that has the potential to generate a CP, adds a die to their Thelema (I clarified this in the newest version of the rules).  This pool is rolled and the numbers are added together.  The person with the highest total in a Thelema Contest wins.  People with a bigger force of personality and will(Thelema) find it easier to be remembered by those with a weak one. 

Characters gain more to their Thelema by growing as a person, and realizing more about their hopes and desires.  In the text as written it is pretty vague, and needs work, which I have been doing.  As written however, it is very not useable.   

Ok so on to other Feedback.

Frank T.

I agree with you that the game would work with your suggested set up.  Originally that was what was in my head.  Then I got to thinking that I was very interested in the characters, and how they percieve God and the Devil since the game is ultimately about the characters own force of personality allowing them to continue in a world that doesn't want them.  What they view God and the Devil as was a way for me to try to set up later in the game, an end game based on their own characters thoughts on what these two things are instead of the GMs.  It is unfortunate that I never got to develope that part of the play. 

The part I would like to take out of the character generation is the Gods Plan part.  A character shouldn't know what they did to get deleted.  Your "Also, write down what it is you could get or do if only you weren't such a damn loser" is a perfect replacement for that part.  It gives a suggestion of Gods plan being what your character desires, and throws the ball back into the main theme of the game. 

The God & the Devil were ment to always be generated by the character, and then played by the GM.  I never planned on fleshing them out more than that, other than defining more what they do in the game, which never happened completely due to life catching up with me five hours into the game.  Thanks to your feedback however I have started to revisit some of these concepts in my head, and hopefully will have something set up that will work in a few days.

The line "the devil tells you there are others like you", was ment to set up group play.  I'm not entirely sure if I was falling back into old gamer habits (must be in a group), or if I was going somewhere with that. 

TonyPace

I hope the above helped you with the rules.  Others Thelema is the summary of their character as well. It functions like a player characters Thelema would function.  I had planned on generating rules to help the GM with this, I guess I should probably remember to do that.  SiS and Thelema wasn't even implied but I ment to, just like I ment to imply it in the conflict section and I didn't.  That is my bad.  In future version I will make that more clear. 

The gun always hits unless someone uses a Conflict Point to make it miss, just like the normal rules.  The difference is that the Gun always has Intent to Kill.  If the gun doesn't hit its intended target, then it hits whoever is in the scene that would logically be hit, decided by the GM.  If no one is in the scene the gun may hit someone by going through walls, or whatever else the GM decides.  Another spot that needs clearing up, thanks.

Sorry you don't like the word Thelema.  It always makes me think of Aliester Crowley, who I never had much respect for, but I like the word and what it implies.

Thank you both for your comments.  I have been working on the game since posting the fragment online, and some of the issues you all have are already worked out but some of them will be worked out because you all have started my gears moving again.

Brandon

[Frank T]

Hi Brandon,

Glad to hear you are making progress. Here's another thought: If you want the player's idea of God and the Devil (as the character imagines them) to shape the game, then I think you'll need some sort of means to get that idea into the Shared Imagined Space. Because in your draft, you only state the intention, but never make it work.

- Frank

[Brandon Parigo]

Frank,

Just wanted to chim back in here and say that Delete is coming along well.  The Rewards system is a bit more clear, with anything the character does that gets them closer to their Desire gains them a new Fact about themselves (which in turn increases Thelema).  The other way that a character gains a Fact about themselves, is by giving the Devil props.  Thelema now is the number of Days you have before you are completely gone.  So you can either, try to be the person you always wanted to be but couldn't because you were too damn lazy, or you can do what the devil wants, in order to stay around and grow as a person. 

Instead of the Devil telling you "there are others like you", instead, those who are like you, don't forget you, like everyone else.  This can lead to group play without having it forced down your throat, or it can just be something interesting.

The God references are still there but underplayed.  The Devil says God Deleted you, and you are turning into Dirt and Water (Mud), but that doesn't mean the Devil is lieing.  The GMs job then is to listen to what the characters believe, stop them from gaining their desires, and force them to rely on the Devil more, or resist doing so.  It is also his job to bring the game to a head, when the characters believe they have it all figured out.  This last part has to be detailed a bit more so its a little fuzzy at the moment. 

Thanks,

Brandon