[Sorcerer] Gearing up for a new session

[Lisa Padol]

I'm hoping to have a 4th session of Sorcerer next Tuesday, January 31st. This is assuming all goes well, and we don't get another strike, what with the union members voting down their contract.

I think the enforced hiatus was helpful. Today, I reviewed my index cards of demons and other NPCs, and began entering them as notes in my pda. In so doing, I made a few connections I hadn't seen before and noted them down for future nefariousness. (Future as in next Tuesday, not X sessions down the line.)

Earlier, I had reviewed my notes in my longhand notebook. I discovered that enough of what the campaign is has been internalized that I forget that I took X or Y from my source, The Fall of the Kings. This is a good mental transformation. The game is its own thing, not a rehash of someone else's novel.

Dreamation also helped. At Dreamation, Dave and I played in differing runs of Judd's Dictionary of Mu. Dave agreed that the combat system runs smoother when the GM is on top of things and familiar with the rules. Okay, Judd had to look up a bunch of odd circumstances rules, but combat was smooth. I think part of the reason for this is that, iirc, Judd had no separate initiative phase. It's not really necessary unless one action may cancel another, and, in that case, the number of successes determines results-n-initiative at once; no need to separate the two out.

Also, Judd did more with setting stakes in non-combat situations than I did, with a keen eye towards both what was interesting and what the players liked. I note with relief that he also does the automatic dice off when two PCs meet to see who recognizes whom as a sorcerer.

Just about everyone  I talked to on the subject thinks I'm insane to run for 5. Um. I didn't know it was insane when I did it. What is the optimal number? 2? 3? 4? Dave, noting Judd ran for 4, was unconvinced that 5 is that much trickier.

The usual explanation I got for why 5 is trickier is that I have to keep track of 5 demons. Actually, I have to keep track of 7, at the moment, as 2 PCs have summoned additional demons. And, given that, or so I gather, if the PCs -aren't- summoned additional demons, I'm doing something wrong, with 3 or 4 players, I might well have 5 or 6 demons to keep track of, I'm not sure 5 players is such a big deal on demon grounds. Heck, I'm also playing a couple of NPC sorcerers and their demons, and a whole lot of ordinary NPCs. I have a hypothesis that ordinary NPCs are the other key, as they are what motivates sorcerers to summon demons in the first place. Corollary: This involves the use of "character" that Ron discussed, i.e., character vs furniture.

Running for 5 is not a cakewalk, but I think this is because I have 5 players, not because of how many demons or other NPCs I have. Juggling 5 PCs while avoiding the pitfall of forcing a "party", but seeing that everyone has enough to do is a delicate balancing act. I have not been utterly successful here. Josh needs more to do, and Beth's PC tends to fade into the background, though the latter is due to a different issue.

5 players can mean 5 distinct styles. There's been a lot of talk about lines, and playing right on the line and pushing the line further. In those terms, Dave is racing for the line so fast that my gut instinct is to slow him down. There is, IMAO, a difference between Story Now and Wham Bam Thank You M'am. Given Dave's reaction to a bang I tossed at him ("Forget my character; you just broke -me-"), I think my instinct is correct, thus far. I also think I need to keep an eye on my gut instinct and start reining it about now.

Josh is trying to explore and define the line, hindered by my clumsiness in time splitting. Beth is trying to stay far from the line, leaving me the challenge of keeping the edge that makes Sorcerer what it is while respecting her desire for NGH style play. I think this can be done. I need to push to the line, but to push the right things to the line. As for Pamela, both Josh and I define her style as, "What's a line?" She has never done this kind of gaming before. And Julian? He's walking right on that line. Teresa, the demon I found hardest to run at first is clicking with a satisfying "click".

So, push Beth towards one part of the line, and Pamela towards a completely different part. Push Josh period, as he's been short shrifted. Keep Julian on the line and push at that line. Work with Dave so that when he dive bombs the line, it has the appropriate sturm und drang to it. Set the stakes, but don't stress on that. See if combat runs smoothly if I fold initiative into action, and that way, I'll stop going "Ack! Initiative!"

I'm really, really glad I didn't know exactly how insane running Sorcerer for 5 was before I'd done some of it.

-Lisa, starting to ponder whether PTA's idea of spotlight eps is compatible with Sorcerer, and deciding not to get sidetracked by this idea

[Judd]

Dave, noting Judd ran for 4, was unconvinced that 5 is that much trickier.

Dave played the Witch King, right?  Nice.

I disagree with him.  I think four is straining the whole gig a bit and I always feel that with four I am soft with one demon out of the bunch.

Plus, your demons are all possessors, right?  At least with mine one or two is a parasite or an object, cutting down on the out and out role-playing I need to do with the NPC, where my main communication is what powers they allow.

I love running a big game with a packed table of 8 or 9 from time to time but not with Sorcerer.

That said, good luck.

[Valamir]

I think part of the reason for this is that, iirc, Judd had no separate initiative phase. It's not really necessary unless one action may cancel another, and, in that case, the number of successes determines results-n-initiative at once; no need to separate the two out.

This confuses me. 
Unless I'm REALLY misremembering my Sorcerer, there's never a seperate Initiative phase.

You do the free and clear and determine whose doing what to whom.
You roll the dice with whatever bonus or carry over dice you get
The high roller goes first and carries out their action with the dice that are already rolled and sitting on the table in front of them.
The Target either eats it with 1 die or aborts and rerolls their dice for defense.
Then the next highest roller who hasn't aborted goes, and so on.

Is that not how you've been doing it, or am I missing what you meant by seperate Initiative Phase?

[Lisa Padol]

Dave played the Witch King, right?  Nice.

No, he was the kid with the rock.

I disagree with him.  I think four is straining the whole gig a bit and I always feel that with four I am soft with one demon out of the bunch.

You know, it's okay to set the player limit at 3 for a convention run.

Plus, your demons are all possessors, right?  At least with mine one or two is a parasite or an object, cutting down on the out and out role-playing I need to do with the NPC, where my main communication is what powers they allow.

Possessors or passer animals. At the moment, let's see... The PCs have two possessed humans, one possessed mouse, and four passer animals, of which the raven can talk, the dog can't, and, iirc, the jury's out on the cat and the eagle, who might be able to, but haven't yet.

I love running a big game with a packed table of 8 or 9 from time to time but not with Sorcerer.

In general, 3-4 is comfy for me, with 5 pushing it, and 6 my screaming limit, as in, I'm likely to be screaming with confusion. That's in general, not for Sorcerer, this being the first Sorcerer game I've gm'd.

That said, good luck.

Thanks!

-Lisa

[Lisa Padol]

Unless I'm REALLY misremembering my Sorcerer, there's never a seperate Initiative phase.

You do the free and clear and determine whose doing what to whom.
You roll the dice with whatever bonus or carry over dice you get
The high roller goes first and carries out their action with the dice that are already rolled and sitting on the table in front of them.
The Target either eats it with 1 die or aborts and rerolls their dice for defense.
Then the next highest roller who hasn't aborted goes, and so on.

Is that not how you've been doing it, or am I missing what you meant by seperate Initiative Phase?

Hm. Lemme think. I've had a grand total of two combats. Did I invent a non-existent initiative phase?

Okay, I think I sort of did. That is, if I tried to count down from most successes to least, without taking into account who's actually doing what and which actions don't really impact each other, then, yes, I guess I did sort of add an initiative phase.

At Dreamation, Michael suggested diagramming out conflicts as necessary, as per Sex and Sorcery. Might slow things down, but might also speed it up by keeping things crisp and clear.

-Lisa

[Eric J-D]

You do the free and clear and determine whose doing what to whom.
You roll the dice with whatever bonus or carry over dice you get
The high roller goes first and carries out their action with the dice that are already rolled and sitting on the table in front of them.
The Target either eats it with 1 die or aborts and rerolls their dice for defense.
Then the next highest roller who hasn't aborted goes, and so on.

Ralph's right.  In the distant past this was a point of confusion for some folks, and Ron worked hard to clarify that this indeed is how the rules work.  I can't find it at the moment, but there was a thread in which Jesse voiced his confusion about the order in which actions occur and so on (complete with some good examples and Ron's helpful clarifications).  If someone could dig that thread up and post it it might help you out.

Personally, I really like playing the game exactly as written.  It creates for lots of fun when someone announces during the free and clear that he wants his character to try to preempt and prevent something another character is doing (e.g. grabbing the wrist of someone who is trying to throw some documents into a fireplace in an effort to prevent their destruction) and then the dice are rolled and that character's actions clearly don't win the initiative.

Nothing like things going horribly awry to create good roleplaying moments.

Cheers,

Eric

[Eric J-D]

Oh hell, my search-fu sucked earlier, but this time around I found it.  here's the link to the thread I referenced:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=688.msg5874#msg5874

Eric

[Iskander]

I disagree with him.  I think four is straining the whole gig a bit and I always feel that with four I am soft with one demon out of the bunch.

I concur! Jarl of the Spiders had it a bit easy from the spiders in the second Mu, I think. They let me do everything.

[Lisa Padol]

I concur! Jarl of the Spiders had it a bit easy from the spiders in the second Mu, I think. They let me do everything.

Actually, that raises a question I've been pondering in the abstract. The way Iskander played the Jarl, from where I was sitting, looked like the Jarl was doing everything he could to make his Spiders happy. So, what does one do as a GM in that case? That is, the demon has an agenda, and the idea is to make the sorcerer sweat. But, the player decides that the sorcerer will go along with the demon's agenda, to the hilt, and plays this to the hilt. It's certainly legit. Is it a problem?

Or is it really not a problem? Just hit the sorcerer with situations where, if the sorcerer goes along with the demon, there are Humanity rolls? Or play the demon like a Master from MLWM, where, no matter how good the sorcerer is to the demon, it's never good enough?

I'm also a bit curious about campaign pacing. The rules seem geared to schlurp out the Humanity of a sorcerer in record speed if the sorcerer starts summoning demons in play. What I'm pondering here is not "Why are the rules so mean to sorcerers?" I get that -- demon summoning is a dangerous business. What I'm pondering is, "Is there actually room to develop an interesting story that isn't over before it begins if a sorcerer starts summoning up more demons?"

-Lisa, currently in that pre-session state where I am done with the prep and the worrying, and what will happen will happen

[Judd]

If the player gives in to their demon, have the demon get greedy and ask for more, see how far the player will go before slapping their demon's nose with a newspaper and saying, "Bad doggy!"

[Ron Edwards]

And if he doesn't do anything but accord with the demon, merely play the game just as you would have anyway. Call for Humanity checks just as you would. It is not your job as Sorcerer GM to take care of any particular character. Let the rules do what they're designed to do. Humanity 0 exists for a reason; it is not a mere disincentive.

Best,
Ron