Pantheon

[Dodavehu]

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Hello.  I was only recently exposed to this wonderful forum.  Reading through these posts has made be want to try my hand at design as well (something I haven't done since I was in high school).  So I got a group together and warned them that I was feeling experimental.  Here is the system I've been tinkering with in my spare time since then.  It's in its very early stages, so feedback and guidance would be greatly appreciated.

GENERAL
In this game each player represents a deity and together the party makes up a pantheon of gods.  Most games will begin with the pantheon creating a shared reality and sparking life on the new planet.  In addition to that plane it may also be important for the characters to spend time on the neutral godly plane and interact with other gods from different pantheons, where they are most likely the new kids on the block.  Three stats would drive play:  Essence, Power (or Might maybe), and Influence.  Essence represents the god's Self (with a capitol), it can use this resource to imbue certain things with a fraction of its own power or to make certain abilities easier to use.  Power is something that a deity can spend to make actions more likely to be successful.  Influence is a measure of how many worshippers revere the deity.  This score slowly increases as the campaign progresses and the god becomes more and more noteworthy in the shared world.  In certain circumstances the diety can risk loosing some Influence in order to do extraordinary things.  I'm trying to lean this toward more narrativist game play, but also keep some gamist elements. 

CHARACTER CREATION
Essence and Influence would be preset for each character.  At this point Influence would act almost like a level indicator.  For most games it would start at 1-2.  Essence, at this point, would act like a character point pool. 

Each character would first choose two domains, a primary and secondary.  I don't have a list yet, but they would include such things as Fire, Travel, Death, Elves, Love, Hearth, ect.  Each would give a list of abilities that the character would be able to automatically use and a list of abilities that are harder to use (the secondary selection will have shorter lists).  For instance if the character chose Fire she might get Fire Control, Fire Blast, Resist Heat, Combust Mortal ect. that she could use without penalty and things like Water Control, Ice Blast, Resist Cold, Liquefy Mortal might be harder for the character to use.

Then the character can spend its Essence points to choose additional abilities from any list that can be used automatically as well (or make abilities that are harder to use work normally).  Or it can spend some of its Essence to create Artifacts, which can use one or more of the deity's abilities and can be given to others.  They can also give up Essence to make a chosen mortal more powerful or to create an Avatar that can go into the mortal plane and interact with their creations.  The characters must also dedicate some of their Essence to the shared world they create.

The Power stat would be determined through some formula of the other two (I'm thinking Essence X Influence, but it's hard to determine how much Power a character will need during a session yet) and would replenish after certain intervals (so it's basically spell points).

RESOLUTION MECHANICS
I've based the mechanics of the game mostly on Matt Wilson's Primetime Adventures.  Opposed actions are resolved with a standard deck of playing cards.  Each participant draws a card face down.  If they are using a supernatural ability they must expend a Power token (by placing it next to the face-down card).  Then all of the participants can put any number of additional Power tokens ON the card back.  This symbolizes how much divine energy they are infusing into their action (they can choose not to use any).  Then the participants flip up their cards.  The suit determines the winner.  In ascending order the suits are clubs, spades, diamonds, and hearts.  The characters also move one suit up for each power token they infused.  What the character is left with is a sign of how well they did the action.  Clubs = mediocre, spades = good, diamonds = amazing, hearts = epic, anything above (through the use of tokens) = legendary.  The value of the card is used to break ties and also to determine who will narrate the action.  Which ever character drew the highest card value (even if they lost) narrates what occurred. 

It might be easier to explain through example.  Thor and Hercules decide to arm wrestle.  They both draw a card (without looking) and place it face-down in front of them.  Even though most mortals might disagree, arm wrestling is a mundane ability so they don't have to use a Power token.  Thor has been teasing Hercules all day so Hercules decides to use two Power tokens to infuse his action.  Thor, seeing this, decides to use a power token too, he doesn't want to lose to a demigod.  Finally they flip their cards.  Thor shows a nine of diamonds, Hercules shows a seven of diamonds.  When they apply their tokens it seems that Thor has put forth "epic" effort, but Hercules has done a "legendary" job and bests him.  Since Thor has the highest card value (he drew a nine, beating Hercules' seven), he gets to narrate the action.  He might say something like "The two huge gods lock eyes across the table and grasp hands.  Nike gives the signal and both behemoths begin to struggle against each other.  Almost nothing actually moves save their flexing muscles, yet a tangible tension seems to strangle the air around the combatants.  Thor's arm begins to spark and ripple with electricity, but Hercules' eyes burn with a fury that has been building all day.  Just when it seems that reality itself with pop open Thor lets out a deafening thunderous roar as his arm slams into the table, reducing it into millions of tooth-pick sized debris."

Hercules has won, but he has two less Power to spend and even though Thor lost, he still is out one until the next time his Power is replenished. 


Ok, that's all I have so far.  My major concerns revolve around whether the resolution system will work, how to determine how much Power to give each character, and some ideas of just what a god-themed campaign setting should have. 

Any and all feedback/suggestions/comments would be much appreciated.  Thanks for reading through the post :D
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[sean2099]

Hi Dodavehu,

If you are interested, you can check my game and see if anything in it helps you or not.  I wish I could give you more direct help but your ideas sound promising.

Sean

[shawnhcorey]

Interesting but...

How does the game end? Is there something the players are trying to achieve more than just telling a good story? Not that I'm opposed to a good story, I'm just curious.


shc

[Dodavehu]

How does the game end? Is there something the players are trying to achieve more than just telling a good story?

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Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure that I've ever played an RPG with a set end mechanic.  I'm more of a fan of the open-ended games that are driven by story lines.  I have a story line in mind which has a beginning, middle, and end; however, I'd rather get help with the system. 
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[Bankuei]

Hi Dodavehu (your real name?  Dave?),

Welcome to the Forge!

First question- since you're basing it off PTA, have you played much PTA?  The big thing I see absent from your idea is that you want it to be Nar supporting, but it sounds like the focus is more on having a list of powers, ala Hero, GURPS, Champions, etc.  PTA gives Nar play because the core of the game is Issues, which drive all the scenes, all the conflicts, and pretty much define the characters.  What do your Gods care about?  What kind of hard choices do they have to make, if any?

Two games which might be good reference for you- HeroQuest and Riddle of Steel.  HeroQuest because it has an open-ended system that handles any power you could imagine, from mortals to godheads, and doesn't have a lot of crunch or require a list of the powers or abilities.  The Riddle of Steel takes a tactical gamist engine, and retools it with strong Nar mechanics, which, may help you figure out what a Nar game with gamist bits might look like.

Chris

[Dodavehu]

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Thanks Chris.  Most people call me Dave or DJ.
   

since you're basing it off PTA, have you played much PTA?

I only have second-hand knowledge of PTA.  I loved the card mechanic and how it seemingly accomplished the revolving story-telling game that I've always wanted RPGs to be. 

The big thing I see absent from your idea is that you want it to be Nar supporting, but it sounds like the focus is more on having a list of powers

Reading over my initial post I realize that I didn't explain this part very well.  The players will basically be able (encouraged) to do anything within reason by spending a Power token.  So they might fly into the air, toss a fireball, make a smoking bull appear in the crater, and then turn into an eagle and teleport away (for 5 tokens).  If any character (PC or NPC) didn't want the deity to do any of those actions, there'd be an action resolution draw.  I leave what is within and without reason purposely vague.  I'm leaving that up to the GM and players to determine. 

The list of powers the character would get from choosing domains would give them some powers that they could use without paying a token.  They would be so versed in these abilities that they would barely need to lift a finger. 

I'm betting that the balancing factor is the limited amount of tokens and the players' sense to make a good story.   

What do your Gods care about?  What kind of hard choices do they have to make, if any?

Excellent questions.  I'm hoping that the gods will care about getting more Influence (that is more worshipers) which will give them more tokens, make them more impressive to other gods, and allow them to make their own realm or their mortal world more remarkable.  Characters gain more influence through participating in grandiose adventures and showing their epic powers to mortals (either inspiring them or terrifying them).  Hopefully this will sufficiently encourage players to create interesting stories. 

Another part of the game is politics and micromanagement.  While the gods are doing various things in the divine realm, their avatars are keeping an eye on the mortal plane and influencing things there.  Will they agree with the developments on that world?  Will they try to shape the civilization or let it grow organically?  How will they deal with natural disasters not to mention inter-pantheon rivalry and infidels?  It is inevitable that some pantheons will have one god that is the ultimate being of goodness and virtue and one that is a villainous being of evil.  They both have an equal stake in the mortal world though, how will they work together?  With the multiple realities I'm hoping that it will feel like different games going on at once.
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[matthijs]

Quick note: The name "Pantheon" is already in use; it's a "New Style" RPG by Robin Laws. Link here.

[Bankuei]

Hi Dave,

You will want to consider focusing your game towards driving play towards the part you think is most important.

Relying on players to "just get it" is notoriously unreliable and generally bad design.  Again, if we reference PTA, Matt made it explicit to revolve the game around Issues- he didn't just expect folks to analyze the core of what makes a good story for the kind of game he wanted.  The cards are just an easy way to get a randomizer in play (he used dice in the previous edition).

It seems like the hard choices are between the Gods' own agendas and the Stuff on Earth, so you might want to consider finding a way to a) aim players at dealing with those things in play, and b) ways to generate interesting situations for both.

Many games utilize Flags- something the players choose to tell the rest of the group what they want their characters' stories to be about.  PTA's Issues are a Flag mechanic.  Most games that use Flags tie them into either getting rewards such as experience points, getting bonus dice, rerolls, etc., or both.  9 Worlds is a game about Greek Pantheons at intrigue, and uses Muses, which lay out the various goals and relationships of the demi-gods and gets players to deal with them.  You may wish to use something similar, requiring players to have BOTH flags dealing with their godly intrigues and that of mortals.

Another thing you might want to consider- why track resources of the Gods' powers?  Why -wouldn't- you want the Gods to be magical and powerful?  Maybe you should consider simply leaving the actual powers as colorful description and focusing resource tracking on some thing more focal to play.  For example, if you did use the Flagging idea, you could give each flag a number, and, that would become the source of resource management for the players.

"I have to choose between protecting My Love of Aphrodite at 3 or the Island of Minos at 2!  If I show up late at her birthday party, she won't forgive me!  But the Island has one of my temples, and is being threatened by a tidal wave!"  Etc.  How the player describes the wonderful gift for Aphrodite then really becomes irrelevant for the purposes of tracking "powers"..."I fought 100 Titans, beat them into submission, and had them work the bellows of Prometheus' fire for 20 years to be able to heat up this ore, refining it to the purest state, then quenched it in the Spring of Life, so that it may be a circlet worthy of resting upon your brow..."

Obviously, you'll need to figure out what elements appeal to you mostly, though from the sounds of it, how much Gods can do, doesn't seem like the big issue here.

Chris