[The Long Dark] Sins and Motivations

[Jon Scott Miller]

Hello.

I am working on a game focused on the perils of sin. The rules are based on BRP (modified beyond recognition) with two important additions: Sins and Motivations. Every character has 7 Sin scores; the higher the score, the easier it is to fall prey to Temptation (which forces the character to act in a given way regardless of the player's wishes--cf. Personality Traits [or whatever they're called] in Pendragon).

The first temptation in a sense happens in chargen, because you get more Skill Points for your character if you take more Sin Points.

In a way Sin Points are like Sanity in Call of Cthulhu, because a PC with very high Sin scores becomes unmanageable.

Motivations are similar to Kickers in Sorcerer, except you choose one short-term and one long-term motivation. A short-term motivation usually takes one scenario to fulfill (or to be decisively denied). A character only earns XP when acting to fulfill a motivation. (XP are used to increase skill scores.)

I am currently stuck on how to integrate the Motivation with the Sin rules. (There are probably lots of other unresolved issues with this game, but that's the one I'm currently working on.) One idea is to let players get bonuses on skill rolls that relate to their Motivations if they choose to fall prey to relevant Sins (with the size of the bonus dependent on the number of Sin Points gained). I am not sure though.

Thanks for reading,

Jon

[Anders Larsen]

Hi Jon, and welcome to the Forge!

From what you describe, it is not clear to me why you want Motivation and Sin to relate to each other. Is it because Motivation can be a kind of Temptation?

Normally when you have a problem with how rules fit together, it is a good idea to think about how these concepts should work in actual play. After that it is much more clear how the mechanic should work.

- Anders

[sean2099]

Hi Jon,

It sounds like you are trying to work on a mechanic that I have been thinking about for a "dark" supers game.  I have to agree with Anders in that you have to think about how things are put together.  If you use "perils of sins" as a theme, then the mechanics should support this although not every single mechanic needs a direct correlation.

I had some other questions as well.  Is this going to be a cooperative or competitive game?  Are the motivations going to be positive (avoid sin) or negative (selfish goals or wallowing in sin)?  I ask this because your game could change just based on those questions.  You might already know this but there is a set of questions called the Power 19 that would help far more than my post.

Sean

[Jon Scott Miller]

From what you describe, it is not clear to me why you want Motivation and Sin to relate to each other. Is it because Motivation can be a kind of Temptation?

Normally when you have a problem with how rules fit together, it is a good idea to think about how these concepts should work in actual play. After that it is much more clear how the mechanic should work.

- Anders

Thank-you for responding.

Yeah, I think it would be a good idea for Motivations to prompt Temptation rolls. The players are faced with a sort of impossible choice with regards to their control in the game: the higher their characters' Skills, the more in-game control they presumably have, but oftentimes the only way to boost these is through falling prey to Sin. And the higher their character's Sin scores, the less control they have over their characters--the more they can be manipulated by circumstances or by other characters.

Maybe I need to think more about what the actual play is supposed to look like, however.

Jon

[Jon Scott Miller]

I had some other questions as well.  Is this going to be a cooperative or competitive game?  Are the motivations going to be positive (avoid sin) or negative (selfish goals or wallowing in sin)?  I ask this because your game could change just based on those questions.  You might already know this but there is a set of questions called the Power 19 that would help far more than my post.

If I understand the Forge terminology correctly, it is going to be a cooperative game. The players are not playing a zero sum game against one another.

The Motivations can be anything the players want, within a limit set by the "Theme" of the campaign (which is decided on by the GM and players prior to play). A "Theme" in my game is kind of like a Premise in Forge-speak, except it is in the form of an issue or question which the players will address, and not a definitive statement (unlike the way the word premise is used by Lajos Egri).

I am unaware of the Power 19 and will look them up.

Thanks for responding.

Jon

[Josh Roby]

Jon, I think your instinct to bind Motivations and Sin/Temptation is spot-on.  Working towards Motivations is the biggest piece of your reinforcement system (that you've described, at least), and so making it necessary to go through Sin and Temptation in order to get there will ensure that the Sins get some featured time in actual play.

I'd suggest, though, that instead of offering a flat bonus sort of thing, that you either (a) set up your situation creation rules to ensure that the only way for players to get at their motivations is through dealing with sin, or (b) empower the GM (or any other player, maybe) to offer a bonus if the character sins (which maybe forces a check to see if the Sin score is raised), or (c) a combination of both.

The situation creation thing would go something like this: Joe's got the motivation "get a heart transplant for my sister" so the GM creates a situation where a doctor contacts Joe to say that she's got a lead on a less-than-legal transplant, but in order to get it, Joe must get the doctor pregnant.

The bonus-for-sinning thing would go like: Joe's trying to convince a street tough to let he and his sister pass by unmolested.  The GM slides forward two dice and says, "If you give into your Wrath, you can have these two dice."  If Joe takes the bonus to his roll, whether or not he succeeds, he then has to roll his Wrath and if he fails, Wrath goes up by one.

Or combine them: Joe's meeting with the morally-challenged doctor, trying to find a way to help his sister without breaking his marriage vows.  The other players are jumping up and down watching him writhe on the hook, and they decide to make it worse by pushing forward a couple dice and saying, "Give into your Pride and lambast her lack of morals and virtue to cow her into doing right."

[TonyLB]

Yeah, the Sins should give you power.

Describing your character (say) shooting up heroin is not, by and large, a reward for the player.

Moving a step closer to the successful conclusion of a Motivation (and earning the XP as a result) is.

Tempt the player, and see how they respond.

My instinct is that somebody who completely gives in to sin should be able to achieve their Motivation, every single time.  The question is whether you can do it by the harder path.