Of Gods and Men Role-Playing Gods at the Dawn of Civilization

[coldblackwind]

Hello Again,

I went back to the drawing board and wanted to throw my idea for a RPG again. I do not have all the rules down, but a good feel for how I want the game executed. It will be a combination of Role-Play, and Board Game, using a Map of the world and markers to show where a Gods followers are at. The Map is essential as I want to give a feel to this game, as the player takes on the Role of a God looking down upon the world at large. I plan to get the rules completed soon, but I would like to hear some feedback in order to best gage which direction I should go. Right now I am looking at a card/ dice game where each turn last a whole season (like the four seasons of spring, summer, fall and winter). In that season, players role-play one of the Gods in a Pantheon over several close tribes of humans living in the same land. More on the Rules will come soon as I want to give a synopsis of this and get some feedback.

Summary: Players Role-Play a Deity in a Pantheon of Gods and Goddesses for several Human Tribes in the Bronze/ Iron Age.

The Age of Man has begun:

In the shrouded mist of time, before the rise of technology, mankind rose from their bestiality to start civilization. In their quest for meaning, humanity summoned spirits and demons from the nether realm giving their faith and worship to them, creating Gods to guide them and give them Order in a world of Chaos. The Elder Races, Gnomes, Undines, Salamanders and Sylphs and their Gods look upon the new race and its upstart Deities with a mixture of curiosity, revulsion, prejudice and jealousy. The Gods of men gaze down upon the new world looking to transform humanity and the world in their own image. 

You are the New God of Mankind, able to Create, Destroy, Transform and Control anything within your power. But your power comes from your followers and if you displease your people, they will disown you and cast you back into the nether realm, never to be seen again. As a God you may create new believers with your fanatical followers of priest, heroes and sages. These are your pawns to act directly for you in this world. If you are lucky, you may not only win the heart of your people, but of a whole army, who trust in your guidance and instruction. Gods may visit the world of men in person, but you must be careful lest your brilliance wears thin on your people.
Gods may use their any of the four Powers of Creation, Destruction, Transformation and Control to the limits of their point pool for each category. Each God starts off with an influence such as Storms, the Sea, Death, War, or any particular human area. Your influence will give you a bonus for any power conducted in that area.

Each Turn which last one season long (in game time not real time), which in game time can last till every God has spent their maximum allotted power points in each category. A God may choose to save his powers, but after a Year (4 Turns) they are swept aside and began anew in the spring. Gods get points each season if there is a holy day for them.

At the Beginning of each turn Fate (the GM) pulls a Fate card, much like a Tarot Card for that season, this card gives bonuses and negatives to that season of play, until it is discarded.

Depending on the Season, a player may move a pawn or army a fixed amount of distance across the map. Dice will be used to solve human conflicts of pawns and armies, with the Gods powers backing them of course :D

The Main Objective is to create a faith in you with other tribes and keep faith with your followers.  This is determined by several factors (which will be discussed later on).

That is what I have right now. I have been working on the map, background and some of the rules as I plod along. Once I get more accomplished, I hope to make a better presentation.

Let me know what you think.

Sincerely, Richard Leon

[Clyde L. Rhoer]

Hi Richard,

I like the idea of the game especially using the map to give the feeling of looking down on the world from on high. You seem have to developed a lot of the board game elements, but what I am not understanding is the roleplaying part. Right now I get the vision of a God on high pressing buttons to do stuff. What are my passions? Why do I want to press these buttons? What are my social and/or ethical problems? Is there anything I will risk being thrown into the Nether realms for? (Maybe to save the Love Goddess from a dire fate?) Do I need to even speak to the other players in character? I can just say I'm pushing button A to get result X.

Now don't get me wrong, I think a strong gamist agenda could be an asset in the kind of game you seem to be describing. I just don't see how it differs from a board game or computer game as of yet. Perhaps you could make an example of how you might see a game being played with people playing their parts?

[coldblackwind]

Ahh yes that is one area that I have not developed as of yet as things are a work in progress. My vision is for the game to be similar to Nobilis as far as the execution of Role-Playing Style.

Lets say there are three Gods, Baesop, Andelmar and Shenna represented by three players.

Fate (GM) starts off with

"And so the season of spring is upon us again, The Fates have decided to bring forth (GM pulls Fate Card) The Quest of Moon Card. Night is your ally this season with a quest possible for one of your pawns. Baesop you may go first as you have the most followers.

Player 1 Baesop: I will send my hero, Jul-Baesop on a quest to find me a magical sword from the Gnomes.

GM to Player 1 First you have to ask the God before you send a hero walking through his realm.

Player 1 says ok

Play resumes

Player 1 Baesop: (In Character to GM/Fate) I will go visit Gnorr God of the Gnomes in his realm.

GM: Very well. Baesop the Storm God of the Thracians issues forth from his realm to visit the Great Gnome God Gnorr.

Player 1 Baesop: I get on my chariot a thunder cloud shaped cart with two horses made of blue lighting. I take off into the sky

GM: Your magnificent chariot pulls your through the sky as you make your way in the realm of the Gods to Gnorrs Mountain home of Grhunnma. Your chariot pulls up outside the massive gate of his home. Made of carved granite, shot through with all types of precious stones it stands not only as a door, but a monument to Gnorr himself, God of Mountain and Stone.

Player 2 Andelmar: I see Baesop the Storm God take off. As I am the God of the sun I saw his movement.

GM: Would you like to react on Baesop's turn?

Player 2 Andelmar: Yes I would. In fact I will ride down on a sun beam to Gnorr's realm and talk to this God as well. I would not want my Big brother getting the best deal out of all of us.

GM: Player 3 Shenna would you like to go there as well.

Player 3 Shenna: No I will be working on visiting the Undines Goddess on my turn thank you.

GM: Very well.......

Hopefully I made my point on the way the action will be carried out..

Sincerely,

Richard Leon

[Thunder_God]

Just so you'd know, there already exists an RPG with the title "Of Gods and Men", so you might want to shift early.

[coldblackwind]

Really? Damm.........Well I will think of something soon. Can you point me to a link? I searched Google before and found nothing on this.

[Thunder_God]

Here you go..

[coldblackwind]

How depressing,

But things will change. Thanks for the link and I will get a different name soon.

[coldblackwind]

Ha its listed as a Fantasy Heartbreaker on this site.


http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/

Now to find a better name

[coldblackwind]

FYI to anyone reading this:

The Game has been changed to New Gods of Mankind.

I did not see any titles in that pen and paper site like that, but if there is a title out there, please let me know.

Richard Leon

[David "Czar Fnord" Artman]

Dude, this is scary: I thought of a game called "Of Gods and Men" in about 1999, and it involved a lot of board game elements like moving followers, special sites (a la Wonders in Age of Empires), warfare for resources, and god powers. I even used a seasonal turn system! Though I am now a bit jealous and want to return to my design, I have not taken the design past the "handwriting on graph paper" stage and likely never will. So, I will offer up some suggestions from my work, for your consideration:

...I have been working on the map...

First suggestion: don't provide a map at all; provide a system whereby the god are able to "create" the world by drawing a map before play. I was thinking something along the lines of each god "archetype" (class) could define an element of the world:
God of Sea - Coastlines
God of Earth - Mountain and highland locations
God of the Forest - Forestland
God of the River - River routes
etc...

Further, the god's points in that archetype would dictate how many "squares" of the map he or she could affect with his or her creation power. As you might imagine, each land type (highland/valley, river/coast, forest/field) provided different resources and options to the followers (and god) who controlled it.

Second suggestion: Borrow from Populous and make it so that the gods can't just say "I send these ten followers to attack those five." I noodled with a system whereby a god's "influence" would dictate its ability to control follower movement. Then, if army A moved "into" an army B square, the armies' "aggressiveness" (as determined by use of other god powers and situational modifiers like famine or crowding) would determine (a) if they fought and (b) when they would yield and move to an empty or ally square, if possible.

Yeah, it was a bit crunchy, but I was going to use some simple indicators for the units (glass beads or a die turned to indicate a value) to make it all a matter of add-up and compare, a la Risk.

In short (I won't bore you with a transcription of all of the basics, here), I went for a game where the world creation itself was a large strategic element, and the eventual interplay of followers would largely (but not totally) be determined by how the land pushed or stressed them, as their god succeeds in maneuvering them around the world.

Of course, I never imagined this as a roleplaying game: I was thinking pretty purely board game with some "personalization" elements like your god and its powers, your followers' basic proclivities, and your means of shaping the world. I also wanted to try a few board game "experiments" (for me, at least) like no randomizers--gods just take actions in turn (turn order based on god stats) and the board's arrangement would dictate results, up to and including miraculous things done with MegaGod Powers (earned at certain population levels, a la Populous) and using controlled (by your followers) Wonders (triggered by a Priest, who in turn is created by god power and a given population level). I also had some rules for making Towns and Ports (and what they gave the followers and the god), for teaming up with other gods and trading influence, and for final victory conditions other than Total Domination.

I guess that's where you might find the roleplaying hooks that other have asked about: You can have means for cooperation between gods, which would hopefully be roleplayed and not merely gamed OOC. You could perhaps also manipulate victory conditions in such a way that role playing is emphasized (how? Dunno...).

In the long run, roleplaying a god is a bit of a bugbear, it seems to me: what motivations could a god have, really? Wouldn't one need a "god's God" to form the anchor (or impetus) for any sort of Sim or Nar play? Or at least some kind of over-arching, non-competitive goal to play above mere domination? Maybe Civilization could inspire some sort of RP outs: perhaps if a player can get all other gods but one to vote them "winner," then they can get a "Diplomatic Victory". Or if a god can manage to manipulate it so that they have followers "all over" the world, they could get a Population Victory--one which would probably require a lot of dealmaking to get other god to cooperate.

Hmmm... but all that could still be "gamed." You have a very tough job, trying to hook RP into an essentially resource-driven board game.

Hope this helps, and keep at it! I'd like to see where it goes....
David

[coldblackwind]

Dude, this is scary: I thought of a game called "Of Gods and Men" in about 1999, and it involved a lot of board game elements like moving followers, special sites (a la Wonders in Age of Empires), warfare for resources, and god powers. I even used a seasonal turn system! Though I am now a bit jealous and want to return to my design, I have not taken the design past the "handwriting on graph paper" stage and likely never will. So, I will offer up some suggestions from my work, for your consideration:

Thanks for the ideas. I can use as many as I can get. In fact this is one of the main reasons I visit these boards. I appreciate all of your ideas.

First suggestion: don't provide a map at all; provide a system whereby the god are able to "create" the world by drawing a map before play. I was thinking something along the lines of each god "archetype" (class) could define an element of the world:
God of Sea - Coastlines
God of Earth - Mountain and highland locations
God of the Forest - Forestland
God of the River - River routes
etc...

This is not a bad idea, but as the game implies, these are New Gods of Mankind. Humanity is starting off in a world filled with elder races. The Gods of the Salamanders, Undines, Sylphs and Gnomes will not be happy at all with a Human God messing with their creation. Now they can go and alter land masses and rivers or create new land, but this will bring reprisal from the Elder Gods in their jealousy. The Elder Gods will be a large factor in the role-play elements of the game.

Second suggestion: Borrow from Populous and make it so that the gods can't just say "I send these ten followers to attack those five." I noodled with a system whereby a god's "influence" would dictate its ability to control follower movement. Then, if army A moved "into" an army B square, the armies' "aggressiveness" (as determined by use of other god powers and situational modifiers like famine or crowding) would determine (a) if they fought and (b) when they would yield and move to an empty or ally square, if possible.

Yeah, it was a bit crunchy, but I was going to use some simple indicators for the units (glass beads or a die turned to indicate a value) to make it all a matter of add-up and compare, a la Risk.

I really do like this idea, but not so crunchy. I wanted to do a simplified movement chart for pawns (heroes, priest and seers) and one for armies during each season and type of terrain. Also the Gods will play a factor in mortal combat. Each God has a vested interest in their followers as they also supply their resource points (Power Points by the faith of how many follow the god and to what degree.) As I have envisioned some strategy, but not so much as to distract from the Role-Playing. It has to play simple and sweet.

Of course, I never imagined this as a roleplaying game: I was thinking pretty purely board game with some "personalization" elements like your god and its powers, your followers' basic proclivities, and your means of shaping the world. I also wanted to try a few board game "experiments" (for me, at least) like no randomizers--gods just take actions in turn (turn order based on god stats) and the board's arrangement would dictate results, up to and including miraculous things done with MegaGod Powers (earned at certain population levels, a la Populous) and using controlled (by your followers) Wonders (triggered by a Priest, who in turn is created by god power and a given population level). I also had some rules for making Towns and Ports (and what they gave the followers and the god), for teaming up with other gods and trading influence, and for final victory conditions other than Total Domination.

I guess that's where you might find the roleplaying hooks that other have asked about: You can have means for cooperation between gods, which would hopefully be roleplayed and not merely gamed OOC. You could perhaps also manipulate victory conditions in such a way that role playing is emphasized (how? Dunno...).

These are very good ideas, but the overall fact is I do not want the game mechanics too clumsy or crunchy. A simple 2D6 or 2D10 % will probably be used to make for easy dice throws. I would love to hear about your game ideas in depth and if you want to work together that is fine with me. Just drop me an email. I am starting a Wiki site for this game to be worked on.

In the long run, roleplaying a god is a bit of a bugbear, it seems to me: what motivations could a god have, really? Wouldn't one need a "god's God" to form the anchor (or impetus) for any sort of Sim or Nar play? Or at least some kind of over-arching, non-competitive goal to play above mere domination? Maybe Civilization could inspire some sort of RP outs: perhaps if a player can get all other gods but one to vote them "winner," then they can get a "Diplomatic Victory". Or if a god can manage to manipulate it so that they have followers "all over" the world, they could get a Population Victory--one which would probably require a lot of dealmaking to get other god to cooperate.

Every try playing Nobilis or Amber? I played Nobilis and that game is what has inspired this one, along with some ideas from a friend who will get credit in my book. As far as the Gods go, just like in the Greek Myths, they are subject to the Fates or Fate in this game. The GM acts as Fate, giving out a Fate card on each turn that can help or hinder the players and bring up some good story line ideas. I do not want to have an "end" to the game as I can envision long lasting games of centuries in game time of play. The world will change and so will the New Gods of Mankind as they will cohabit or get rid of the Elder Gods and each other. In this Game a God can only die if no one believes in him. So if all of the people following the God gets wiped out somehow, then there is no more God.

I will link that Wiki later on once all of my material is there. Thanks once again for responding.

[coldblackwind]

http://newgodsofmankind.pbwiki.com/

Link to the material I have so far.

Hopefully later on I can move to the playtesting forum :D