[Numbers] first impressions

[Christopher Wood]

I've been aware of this forum for a while, but I haven't really delved into it. I've got a buddy who's been pushing me in this direction and now that I've got a game worth showing off I'm going to, uh, show it off. It's still just a draft, although the mechanics are getting close to what I might call finished. There's still a lot of flavor that needs to be written, but the gist of it is in there.

I guess what I'm looking for is opinions, glaring errors, and personal attacks.

Provided for your perusal in a tasty pdf!

[TonyLB]

Hi Christopher!  Welcome to the Forge.

Two questions, having perused the document ... or, actually, one question in two forms.

Here's the one question:  Why you goin' so easy on your players?

Here's the two questions:  Why do they have powers other than individuality?  Why is there anywhere other than the City to escape to?

[Christopher Wood]

I have to be honest here, I'm not sure I quite understand the questions, but I will try to answer them as best I can! What is this, a riddle wrapped in an enigma?

Am I really going easy on my players? I can't really say for sure until I've playtested. Maybe if you were more specific. Unless you mean "why can't they just take a cab out of the City?" Think of the City as a kind of metaphorical mobius strip, it only has one side and everything loops back around on itself. Someone can try to leave the city just by walking, driving, or whatever, but they wind up getting mixed up and winding up where they started. That's how the City works, it keeps everything in its place to maintain its own equilibrium. The only way out is through the Black Dog, and he's not so easy to pass by.

Players have powers because this isn't a game about normal people, it's about metaphors duking it out with other metaphors. The City is everything that holds a person back, becoming a Prime means beginning to tear down those limits, and leaving the City is achieving enlightenment, after a fashion.

It's really late for me here, I hope that makes sense.

[TonyLB]

That makes sense.  I should have been more clear.

It is hard for characters to be super-powered beings trying to escape a City that wants to suppress their individuality.

It would be harder for characters to be non-powered people trying to express their individuality in an oppressive City that is the entire world, and from which there is no escape.  It would be a different game ... not "Go as crazy as possible and try to leave it all behind!" but "Work your ass off to be you for just one more day ... then wake up tomorrow and do it all over again."

On the powers thing ... I think that the limitations of the Numbers will make the Primes powerful, whatever their power level relative to us normal people.  So why not give people the chance to do stuff that they themselves could do but don't, like drive their car into a shopping mall, rather than stuff they can only dream about, like make their car grow wings?

And on all counts, if the answer is "Because I've thought about it and this is the game that I want," then that's reason enough.

[Christopher Wood]

That's an incredible idea (players as mundanes just getting by) but as you said it would be a different game. It's very compelling, but has needs that would require a different set of rules. There's another idea for a game to put on the backburner!

In respect to powers, I'm pretty enamored with how it works right now. Nonconformity was written without trappings in mind so that the players could fill in how they want their character to express himself. The example is over the top, but if that's what the players want they can do that. If they just want to do something with a little flash, and run the risk of losing a bit of themselves, it is mechanically no different.

Thank you for the feedback! Answering these questions really helps me refine my ideas.

[memolith]

Maybe you need something like the Dials in Donjon, or Dogs in the Vineyard's supernatural scale.

Basically decide as a group what the scale of your Nonconformity is, to avoid breaking someone's genre expectations.

Or wait. As Nonconformity rises, you can do more of the over-the-top stuff. When The City smacks you down in a gambit, your Nonconformity drops, representing a loss of faith in your individuality...a step toward failure.

This would require a general chart of what each level of Nonconformity brings.

What happens when the group is split, though, Nonconformity-wise. Something to think about.

[memolith]

I think Tony might be on to something:

It seems like you've got the player-empowerment nailed. You've got the goal system, distributed narration and scene framing, and mini-monologues of victory.

So, where does the oppression come from? You have your NPC's and Ego points, but is that enough?

[Christopher Wood]

I need to do some playtesting of the system, to figure out if the players are too empowered. I can't really get a group together for a few weeks, but as soon as I come I'm going to be pushing hard for testing this. We'll see how it goes.

A lot of the oppression is going to have to come from the mood, through the GM tweaking the narration here and there to hammer the point in that the player's actions do nothing to fix the problems they see around, that no one in the City really understands what they're doing, and the systems of control are always poised to come down on them anytime they try to act out.

[memolith]

Playtest coming on Thursday!

[Ron Edwards]

That was a bump post, and you should not do that at this site.

Here's what you should do. Playtest, then post about it in the Playtesting forum, and include a link back to this thread.

Bumping this thread therefore becomes unnecessary, as the playtest post will direct attention to it.

This thread is also now closed; no one post to it again, please. It should be preserved as what it is, a preliminary development discussion.

Best, Ron