[TriPent] Some ideas needed

[Qi Chin]

Sorry, I've been quite busy over the past few days, but now I have some time again.

I've been thinking about venturing forth in a mystery being either a reward mechanic, the pool refilling mechanic, or a combination of both. So instead of getting "XP" for killing monsters, you'd get character points (or whatever they'll be called) when you reach another clue, solve a riddle, or otherwise advance in a mystery.
How they reach that next step is up to the characters, so they can choose their plan of action within the confines of the adventure they're in. They could slaughter a whole house of creatures, or negotiate, but the key is getting to that next clue, and so only that counts.

I really like the idea of including a second side to the game. I am thinking something like getting lost and immersed in the world of shadows and losing touch with 'reality'. Just like getting overwhelmed. Pool refreshments can then be interactions with the normal world. But because there should be a real risk (and player motivation) to have the characters keep exploring and getting into the world of shadows, I'll have to insert a counter-mechanic.
I'm thinking about inserting a mechanic that increases points of a stat as he gets more and more immersed. Call it 'fascination' or 'curiosity' or 'drive' or whatever. This stat will continuously give him bonuses on checks, or some other thing, but the higher it goes, the greater the chance of the character losing touch of reality. This can either be a one-time deal, or it can knock off some of the character's 'sanity' value, or some sort of similar thing.

I would like to see what you guys think of this before I continue to get creative along this path.

Qi

[Anders Larsen]

I think that you are moving along the right path. Just some comments.

I've been thinking about venturing forth in a mystery being either a reward mechanic, the pool refilling mechanic, or a combination of both. So instead of getting "XP" for killing monsters, you'd get character points (or whatever they'll be called) when you reach another clue, solve a riddle, or otherwise advance in a mystery.
How they reach that next step is up to the characters, so they can choose their plan of action within the confines of the adventure they're in. They could slaughter a whole house of creatures, or negotiate, but the key is getting to that next clue, and so only that counts.

To give reward for solving riddles and finding clues is a fine idea. This will make 'investigation of the mystery' one of the main drives of the game. Just remember that it should be obvious for the players how and when they get reward. If it just something the GM hand out between sessions without any explanation, it will not give the player the same drive.

Some questions:
* In what ways can the player use this reward?
* There is no personal motivation for the characters here, is this intentional?

I really like the idea of including a second side to the game. I am thinking something like getting lost and immersed in the world of shadows and losing touch with 'reality'. Just like getting overwhelmed. Pool refreshments can then be interactions with the normal world. But because there should be a real risk (and player motivation) to have the characters keep exploring and getting into the world of shadows, I'll have to insert a counter-mechanic.

I think it is a good idea to have the pool refreshed when the characters interact with 'reality'. And yes there should properly be a counter-mechanic.

One more question:
* what exactly are the interaction that will refresh the pools?

I'm thinking about inserting a mechanic that increases points of a stat as he gets more and more immersed. Call it 'fascination' or 'curiosity' or 'drive' or whatever. This stat will continuously give him bonuses on checks, or some other thing, but the higher it goes, the greater the chance of the character losing touch of reality. This can either be a one-time deal, or it can knock off some of the character's 'sanity' value, or some sort of similar thing.

I am not sure about this. The mechanic will properly work, but I think that it can be done more interesting. There is an idea:

For the character to efficiently interact with the shadow world he have to make agreements with the creatures of shadow or he have to bind with places of the shadow world or other thing like that. It could be written like:

* Have agreement with the monster under the bed to help him against the dark people from the old houses.
* Have a connection to the shadow place in the old forest which will give him the magical water when he protect nature.

These places and creatures can empower the character when he do certain action (both in the shadow world and in reality), but they will also draw recourses from him (this could be his sanity), and maybe they will ask him favours.

Well, this is only an idea, I do not know if it fit in with what you want with this game.


And one last question: I have asked this before and it is not be annoying that I ask again, I am just curious. What about the personality of the character and his relation to friend and family? Does this change when he become a shadowmancer? Is this important for the game?

- Anders

[Qi Chin]

I was basically taking my idea of the reward system from The Black Eye, where characters get adventure points after they have completed a certain section of the adventure. How many they got depends on what they have accomplished.
I don't want the reward points to just accumulate like 'normal' xp, where characters then gain levels. Instead, I would want them to behave like character points, so players can improve character abilities by spending these points.
I don't have any ideas on how to implement character motivation as of yet. Of course, a reward system in this style is nice player motivation, but i think that a seperate character motivation should be able to be implemented without much trouble. After all, exact numbers shouldn't matter at this stage.

As for pool refreshment, it would be nice to have different actions for each pool, but also the base act of just 'talking to non-shadowmancers' or 'interacting with normal world' to have a small regenerating effect on all pools. What exactly these are I'll have to determine, but basically, there can be one of two possibilities: either some action that is supported by the pool, such as working out for Vigor or doing crosswords for Presence, or something that supports the pool, such as resting and getting massages for Vigor, and listening to good music for Presence.

I like your idea for making tieing agreements with the shadow world, and this can surely be put in somehow, but what I was envisioning with my 'drive' mechanic is inner character motivation of pushing further into the world.
Take Gary Sinise's character in "Mission to Mars": He is an astronaut fascinated by space travel and exploration, and his fascination and drive goes so far that he is ready to go to unknown galaxies with the martians, never to return home again. He's, in a sense, lost in the wonder of space. That's the kind of drive I want to implement with my mechanic, only with a darker feel.

Qi

[Anders Larsen]

Here are some thoughts.

Pool refreshment

You have some ok ideas for how the player can regenerate pools, but I think you can push it a bit further. Pool refreshment is something the character have to engage in periodically, so this should really be made into some interesting moment of role-play. Just sitting and listen to music can be played through rather fast: "My character listen to music the rest of the evening". If, on the other hand, pool refreshment demand character interaction or development of personality, it will create much more interesting situations.


Character motivation

I have an idea for this inner character motivation. A thing that really can drive a person is a promise that they can find in the shadows what they never where able to get in 'reality'. You can see this as being 'holes' in these psyche that they a need to fill up. It could be something like:

* The character have lost his parents, and he will try to find something to replace them in the shadow world.
* The character have never really been in love, and will try to find a true love in the shadows.
* The character have always been an underdog, but in the shadows he may find a place where he is the king.
* The character have lost his faith, but in the shadow he may be able to find his new god.

These 'needs' or 'holes' can be chosen by the player when the character is created, and they will drive the character into the shadows. But while the shadow world may be able to fulfil these need, it comes with a price. Not only is what the shadow world gives not real, it will also slowly drain the characters sanity (or something like this).

I can not think of a mechanical reward for this, though. Which there properly should be to really motivate the player.


By the way, just out of curiosity, I would really like to hear more about how this shadow world works and what kind of creatures that inhabit it.

- Anders

[Qi Chin]

I'll have to get back on pool refreshment after I've gotten a few more ideas from other games and such.

Character motivation however the way you show it is interesting. So instead of just having one general value for "drive into the shadow world", you get different wants that the individual characters have, and that drive them into the world for different reasons.
As for a mechanic, I don't want anything too compicated. Every character will have to choose two or three wants (two or three for now, every character will have to have the same amount of wants). These start out at a value of 0. As the game progresses, the character might start looking for ways to relieve these wants. For example, the lost parents could, in the beginning, then be shadowy images of the parents hovering just out of sight. Every time the character then pursues a want, he gets, say, a bonus die to all checks for the duration of pursueing, but his want increases by 1.
At other times, the GM can say that the character has to check against his want, making the value the difficulty. If he fails, he leaves behind the current adventure to pursue his want.

Now, why would a character want to pursue a want in the first place? The bonus die is not granted for advancing the adventure, only for following personal needs. And it gives quite a big penalty. The answer is: personal gratification. People have been known to outgrow themselves when following a very personal need very strongly. At the gaming table this means that the character get slight amounts of point to improve his character with as he pursues his want. He gets better, but he also gets addicted to the want.
I'll now have to think of a way to decrease this want thing, maybe with a successful check against it when the GM calls for it.


To describe the shadow world, I'll use an analogy first. In the movie MiB, a great part of the humans does not believe in aliens, let alone aliens living on earth. Yet they do, and only a select few people, the Men in Black, know this. So think of it this way: The whole "alien society" is the shadow world, the aliens are the creatures of shadow, and the MiB are the shadowmancers.
Of course, there are differences, but that's the general set-up. The shadow world is not something you enter through a portal (like the D&D Plane of Shadows), but instead just a term of an 'underground society' which exists outside the knowledge of most humans. Of course, people all know about demons and ghosts and the like, but most don't believe they're real, when in fact they are just living outside their perception.
To take a look at movies again, "Underworld" is also a good example of how it might work. Vampires and Werewolves living amongst themselves, out of sight from humans.
The actual creatures living there can be anything from the stuff of nightmare, but I'll have to put down a definite list in due time. Ghosts and demons are a possibility. With demons I mean mostly demonic forms of normal things, like hell-hounds, demon cats, and so on. Succubi might be one of the 'biggest' things, alongside shadow lords and such. No 'unnatural' stuff like balors or various weird undead.

Qi

[Anders Larsen]

I just have one comment on the 'want' mechanic.

When a player fails a want check, what happen to the character? Will he then exit the game?

Apart from this I do not really have much more to add at this point, so I will just give you some advise of how to continue.

Here are the three mechanics we have talked about:

* 'Character Points' that motivates the characters/players to try to solve the mysteries
* 'Wants' that will drive the character further into the shadows.
* 'Pool refreshments' (when you decide on how that should work) that drives the characters back to 'reality' time to time.

You should use some time to get an overview of how these mechanics interacts. If you can get them to work properly they will provide a strong drive in the game, that will strongly motivate the player to create the kind of stories you want for this game. There may be other thing that need to be tweaked or added, but I think that you have the main mechanics here.

It is properly a good idea to go through some small actual play examples to see how these mechanics work. Make some example character and get a feeling for what drives and motivations they can have, and think about what players with these character will do.

It will be interesting to see an coherent description of how these mechanics work together. I look forward to see how this develop.

- Anders