[Divinity Horizons] Destiny mechanic

[sean2099]

Hi Sovem,

Let me see if I understand some concepts of DIvinity Horizons and lay out some ideas.  So, every godshard gives somebody control over two new physical things. What if godshards could combine themselves into new powers.  For instance, you have a shard of wolves and sunflowers and you manage to possess a shard of cats and silver.  Instead of having control of four physical things, they could "combine" two physical aspects into an ideological power.  i.e., the player could state...I chose to gain the power to incite hatred because i am merging the cats and wolves aspects...cats and wolves hate each other.  Then, if the reasoning sounds okay, then they still control sunflowers and silver but now they can incite hatred (they lose ability to control cats and wolves)...I am sure there countless other examples but I hope I am getting the basic gist across.  Players could then have a goal of at least wanting to get shard X because they believe it will combine into a power they actually want.

Also, INHO, the player should state some overarching goal that they which to accomplish (their destiny in other words).  Should destiny somehow measure how far along they are in accomplishing this goal?  Destiny would go up if goal is closer to being accomplished and reduced if they fail in some way.  Destiny could be even be changed to zero if player wants a new goal.  Of course, then you would have to quantify results and perhaps a maximum destiny score.

Oh well, hopefully this is food for thought.

Sean

[TroyLovesRPG]

One image comes to mind after reading these posts: an iceberg that is gradually revealed. The advancement of destiny, godshard acquisition, power calculation, reputation and purpose can be represented by a diamond.

The top of the diamond is the pinnacle of your life-long quest, reaching the top. The bottom of the diamond is where you start and various paths can fork and combine. As you reach the top, your destiny becomes clearer and there are fewer paths to take. I don't know how may godshards your characters could have. Let's say 36 to be "the ultimate power in the universe". Your diamond would have 11 rows of archives where the deeds and godshards are chronicled. Like this:

11                  __                      \
10              __    __                    |
9            __    __    __                 |   Can only choose a quest type from the row below. No new quest types can be selected.
8        __    __    __    __             |
7     __    __    __    __    __       /
6 __    __    __    __    __    __    \
5     __    __    __    __    __         |
4         __    __    __    __             |   Must first choose a quest to represent at least one of each type from the row below.
3             __    __    __                 |   New types of quests can be selected after the previous row is fully represented.
2                __    __                     |
1                    __                       /

An amalga goes on the first quest of difficulty 1, completes it and receives a godshard or a particular type. It goes in the first archive on row 1. Next quest must be similar to the row 1. After that is satisfied, the amalga can choose to fulfill a different kind of quest or the same type. Row 2 would be filled. Each subsequent row must include at least one of each type of godshard from the previous row. This provides a stable path yet allows other choices. At row 7 the amalga is "godly" and can only fulfill quests of the type archived in row 6, and possibly eliminate a type of quest. No new types of quests or godshards can be chosen at row 7 or above. Eventually, the amalga must choose his or her ultimate destiny.


Othor wanted a variety of powers and verred towards B in the end.
11                  _B_
10              _A_    _B_
9            _A_    _B_    _C_
8        _A_    _B_    _C_    _D_
7     _A_    _B_    _C_    _D_    _E_
6 _A_    _B_    _B_    _C_    _D_    _E_
5     _A_    _B_    _B_    _C_    _D_
4         _A_    _B_    _B_    _C_
3             _A_    _B_    _B_
2                _A_    _B_
1                    _A_

The power of a particular godshard type is the number of godshards. Powers are conferred at each row and the potency is the number of godshards in that row. Othor has a different godshard A power of strength 1 in every row. In rows 3 through 6 he has a different godshard B power, each of strength 2. So, its possible to diversify with lesser powers, or just stick with one or two types to be potent in a few areas. Increased strength may represent a new ability that is unlocked.

I imagine that the possession of powers confers upon the amalga influence in different arenas: war, politics, industry, religion, weather, etc. Having different types of godshards lets the amalga have lesser status in a variety of areas, while having few types of godshards makes them more influential in a few realms.

The diamond is a visual representation of the amalga's deeds, shows levels, catalogs the powers and becomes a strategic tool.

Troy

[Sovem]

I check these forums many times a day, so if I do not respond to an idea or question, it's because I'm carefully mulling them over. The last few posts have given me a lot to think about... let me see if I can articulate my current thoughts.


Sean: Your first idea is very interesting, and would be a very good motivational factor for making players want to accumulate different shards. I'm a little hesitant, however, because the cosmology was set up that low gods would control two tangible, physical Dominions, while midgods would have one broad, intagible Dominion, like Death or War or, yes, even Hate. The idea was to motivate players to push their characters into the godly realm, where they could eventually take on such impressive midgods and, if it is their desire to see all gods destroyed, shatter the midgods and begin to gain those Dominions.

Your second idea has been voiced more than once by my wife, and I think we've decided to impliment something like it using the Passion rule already in the game. This will serve the twofold purpose of 1) Helping players know what sort of thing is appropriate to choose as a Passion and 2) help players know what sort of things they should do to gain Destiny.

Troy: Wow, that was quite the idea! You put a lot of work into the example; I appreciate it.

I'm not quite sure how to respond. It's a really good idea, but DH is supposed to be rules-lite... I worry about putting in something as complicated as that.
It looks like we're going to have to come up with "quest types", though, to help judge what types of things gain you Destiny. Something broad, like "Warrior quests: slaying monsters, defeating armies, etc.," "Ruler quests: usurping thrones, establishing authority, etc."

My wife was tossing around an idea last night that involved Challenge levels and Passion, something like "defeating a challenge rating of 20 in which you used your Passion gains you 2 Destiny points," ...the problem, though, is that Challenge ratings are used for anything, and it might be hard to determine when it would just be silly to get points from it... Using your Passion would probably be a pretty good hint, though.

[Lance D. Allen]

I check these forums many times a day, so if I do not respond to an idea or question, it's because I'm carefully mulling them over. The last few posts have given me a lot to think about... let me see if I can articulate my current thoughts.

I think I recognize your reaction, John. You're getting to the sensory overload phase that happens you bring the game you've worked on in relative isolation into the Forge, and receive a lot of ideas and feedback.. Not to mention a few new ideas and ways of approaching things that you may not have considered. Personally, when I reached this phase originally with Mage Blade, I ended up shelving it for almost a year before attempting to do any more significant work on it. If I hadn't, I might have published it by now. Of course, if I'd done that, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as good a product as it will be when I finally do publish it.. But your mileage may vary. The point is, if what you're feeling now is anything like what I was feeling then, you're probably feeling a little overwhelmed, trying to figure out how to get all these ideas to work and mesh.

So my advice to you is this: Step away from the boards for a while. Read still, maybe take part in discussions non-related to Divinity Horizons, and let this thread rest. Try to work on an actual design/playtest document, and when you're ready to let us know how you've decided to work it (for our edification, not our approval!) then come on back and share what you've accomplished.

We'll still be here.

[Sovem]

I think I recognize your reaction, John. You're getting to the sensory overload phase that happens...

And how! I'm definately feeling a little overwhelmed. It makes me slightly frustrated, but it feels good, too. My playtesters don't always see to the business/marketing side of things when they give feedback, whereas most of you guys have personal experience in those realms.

I think my problem with this whole Destiny thing is really a lack of focus. I keep on trying to bring it back to the basics, but then I'll get a new idea and I'll get so distracted trying to get it to work that I'll lose sight of why I needed it in the first place.

I think what needs to happen is for me to drop the Destiny thing altogether as a failed attempt, and start over from scratch. Focus on the need that caused me to come up with it in the first place, and try to find a different way to do it. In other words, stop trying to find ways to fix Destiny, and start looking at ways to fix the original problem.

I'd like to get Forge-ites opinions on it. I don't just want someone to tell me how to make my game--ultimately, all decisions are up to me and my wife--but I value the insight here and learn many valuable points. Should I talk about it here, or make a new thread? Or do I just need my own bloody blog?

[knicknevin]

knicknevin,

This isn't by any means a personal attack. This is aimed more generally, as I've seen variants on this statement over and over. I believe that saying things like "don't design your game by committee" tends to stifle discussion, rather than focus it. When I see threads like this one, my basic assumption isn't "Design my game for me!" but is instead "I'm having trouble with this. Any ideas that I can riff off of to create something awesome and appropriate to my game?". Now, I can see the point of cutting "what's your opinion on this?" or "How many people think this is a good idea?" posts.. Those don't tend to lead anywhere constructive. The original post doesn't seem to follow that sort of format though, and is more a "this is what I'm trying to do. Any ideas on how I can accomplish that?"

And I agree totally Wolfen; if you read Sovem's opening to this thread, you'll see that he had 3 other people adding suggestions to his design mechanic as he tried to work it out and thats the committee to which I was referring. I think he should have just come up with his own mechanic and played a game using that idea BEFORE saying to his players "What do you think?". I know you didn't mean this as a personal attack but the fact that you jumped to the conclusion you did does kind of upset me.

[Lance D. Allen]

knick, reply will be sent in PM to avoid derailing the thread.

John,

Post as you like, so long as you feel the input here is too valuable. My only concern is that you'll have the kid in a candy store reaction I did; Maybe you're a bit wiser than I was/am in that respect, and my concern is for naught. But every cool idea I came across here at the Forge, I tried to figure out how to make it work with my game, and just got further and further confused.

As for trying to get discussion on your own blog.. I'd *personally* advise against it. I've got my own message boards where I've tried to discuss my ideas, but with little success. An existing community site will always garner more attention than your own little corner of cyberspace.

[Sovem]

I wanted to reply with a real pithy "thanks," but in the faceless medium of internet posting, it kept on coming across as snooty. So, let me just tell you that I am thankful for all your advice and will be using it.