USing Open Licenced Systems

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'm wondering how many people prefer to deesign their own systems from scratch and how many prefer to use systems with open licences that have already been designed.

MY upcoming HeartQuest game will be using Steffan O'Sullivan's FUDGE as its rulesbase. My next game, Fuzz: the Furry Police, will use the upcoming Action! System from Gold Rush. Both are free licences.

What are people's opinion on this topic?

[Jack Spencer Jr]

If you use any open licensed system you should be certain that you have read and understood the license completely, especially if you're planning to publish anything for a profit.

And you should consult a lawyer just to be on the safe side.

This is a sticking point for me on these "open" systems. I dislike having to consult a lawyer for anything if I can help it.

The other thing is the design of the system is an important aspect of an RPG. It should reflect the important elements of the game, and not focus on the stuff that's not.

Using a pre-designed system brings in so many assumptions of what has to be in an RPG, not to mention whatever personal assumptions the designer has, that I really can't see the value in it. Not for making a new game, anyway.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

What are people's experiences with these, anyway? Do we have any authors of published Fudge stuff, Fuzion stuff, out there?

My impression is that much of this is web-published (e.g. Thrash for Fuzion, or all that neat stuff by Mike Gentry for Fudge). My other impression is that Ann Dupuis of Grey Ghost Games is extremely supportive and reasonable regarding Fudge material.

Any hassles to report? Success stories?

Best,
Ron

[Bailey]

Fuzion is far from open.  There's a lot on the web because the Pondsmith crew has little problem with folks doing free stuff with it, but there's a contract you'll have to go through to get the right to sell Fuzion stuff.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, I was a hair's-breadth from publishing some Fudge stuff for profit. (I was, as I think every gamer is at some point, enamored with Fudge.)

I talked to Ann Dupuis about how to go about this, and she told me that I had to e-mail Steffan O'Sullivan. Permission to publish for profit was as easy as e-mailing him the idea and he sending me a letter authorizing me to, with the proviso that he get two free copies.

Easier than the d20 license, by far, and, in my opinion, a pretty nice process. I do remember - I believe, and I may be wrong - Steffan saying that approval was automatic except for anything that might be considered "blue," in which case approval was on a case-by-case basis.

[Valamir]

(I was, as I think every gamer is at some point, enamored with Fudge.)

Heh, as the exception to the rule, I have always hated Fudge.  I used to think it was the quirky fudge dice and my natural distrust of any game that purports to be applicable to any setting.  But now I think it was a subconcious rejection of what has been identified in other threads as an effort to "hide the numbers".  While I'd never articulated it like that, I think my distaste was rooted in the realization that the holy than thou adjective based rules was really just sleight of hand.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I had just the opposite reaction to FUDGE. I've always adored generic systems (GURPS< Hero) and found FUDGE flexible enough that I actually used it as the basis for .HeartQuest: Romantic Roleplaying in the Worlds of Shoujo Manga

Mind you, there are some things I won't use it for. I'm planning to use a different system entirely for Fuzz: the Furry Polcie RPG.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Just to let you know I now got the FUDGE licence from Steffan. He'll even take electronic copies. So I'm pleased with myself (especially with the game getting ready for PDF release and for press.)

As for Fuzz, I'll be using something called the Action! System that Gold Rush games is developing. GRG's head honcho finds me extremely annoying (I know I would by now), but once he;s posted his licence requirements I should have no trouble bmeeting them. He just released the core rules at his website at http://www.action-system.com.

One thing I'm wanting to avoid is D20. I had a D20 project in the works, but meeting the rules and system requirements were a huge hassle. Besides, it was someone else's project, not mine, I didn;t know much about it, and I just couldn;t make it a high priority.

[Adam]

My other impression is that Ann Dupuis of Grey Ghost Games is extremely supportive and reasonable regarding Fudge material.

I haven't published any Fudge based stuff directly [Thinking about it though, three game ideas in the pipeline...] but I have worked somewhat on the online magazine Fudge Factor, mostly in an advisor role [They list me in the staff as "Resident Expert on Webzines," which bother flatters and embarasses me ;)], and I've done some work for Ann Dupuis [Compiling material for the GamePlay advertisement CD-ROMs]

Ann has always proven to be easy to work with, responsive, and fun. Plus she's very interested in getting new publishers to work with Fudge, so she's willing to take the time to help you out with questions of all sorts.

I have less direct experience with Stephen, but he's answered several questions within 24 hours for me, both about Fudge and some other stuff.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Let's go back to Michael's first question: How many game designers use open/available/whatever systems, as opposed to creating their own?

Well, that's simply a matter of counting noses. It seems clear to me that prior to 2000, designers and publishing houses tended to create their own. Granted, most of these "creations" were highly imitative. I understand the reasoning - why should we sell [us + you] when we can sell [us]?

Fudge and similar/open/whatever systems, by whatever deal, did not seem to be used much, at least not in terms of another publisher putting out books.

D20 and D&D3E changed this to a great extent. It's quite brilliant - the D20 OGL is taken to be, in most people's minds, "D&D," and hence you get to sell Your Game but with all the associations of D&D attached. (That's the perception; I do not intend to permit a debate in this thread about whether this works or not.)

In other words, open systems (by whatever name or deal) do not seem to be widely used on their own. Without D&D3E as its flagship, using D20's OGL may well not have had the "sudden draw" power that it did for many game publishers.

So, to return (again) to the basic question, the answer is, "Not many at all, except for D20."

That's too bad, really. I think Fudge has a lot of potential - especially since it's eminently tweakable - for focused and fascinating games. I'd like to see more people publishing games using its system, or a version of it.

Best,
Ron