Kingdom of Nothing- a dark fantasy game about homelessness and escapism

[somniturne]

Hey guys,

At the last Dreamation I attended the game design panel and put out my concept for a game.  After receiving a lot of really insightful feedback, I've been fleshing the idea out and I'm getting to the point where I'm almost ready to playtest it.  There are a few elements of the design I'm still struggling with so I thought it was time to post it here.

My game is about people who've lost everything, and their struggle to crawl their way back out of the cracks through which they've slipped.  In it, you play a homeless person.  Something happened to you that was so horribly traumatic it brought your life crashing down and you now live on the street. Through the course of the game, you come to grips with the thing that destroyed your life and if you're stronger than it you rise above it. 

As a result of the world collectively ignoring the homeless, a force called the Nothing was brought about. The Nothing drags the homeless deeper and deeper into obscurity until the world completely ignores them for good. In the more extreme cases (i.e. in the cases of the PCs) it also manifests their unconcious fears and hopes. The fears are called Cobwebs and the hopes are called Echoes. Soon after the Echoes and Cobwebs show up, the characters learn to manipulate the Nothing and gain some kind of power from it, directly correlating to how they became homeless. For example someone who lost everything in a fire would gain pyrokinesis, and someone who lost everything to drugs would be able to poison the blood of others or cloud their mind.  Also the ever lingering question of whether or not this is all just a delusion is always hanging in the air. Sometimes when you kill a Cobweb it will turn out that it was really a cop, etc.  It becomes very difficult for the characters to seperate fantasy from reality the further into the game they go.

The myth of the Labyrinth is largely the inspiration for how the game is structured. The Characters are Theseus. The Echoes are the ball of yarn given to him to find his way out, and the Minotaur is the inner demon plagueing them. To escape they need to conquer the minotaur.

The Nothing also effects the forgotten places. Abandoned hospitals, asylums, steam tunnels, etc are warped into twisted palaces ruled over by those completely lost to the nothing. They're extremely powerful but they are confined to their realms. They consider themselves to be kings and war with the neighboring kingdoms by sending out minions.

When the characters start out, the Nothing has eaten their Name (note the capital 'N').  With the name went their memories of their former life, specifically the traumatic event that caused the Nothing to be drawn to them (in most cases, this is the event that drove the character into homelessness). During character creation, the players help to create the back-stories of the other characters at the table. Each player lays down the framework for their character, choosing the power, some personality traits and their story as of after they lost everything.  The other players pass around a sheet of paper, writing down things about the characters former life that the character will find out through the course of play. The GM runs the stories, using the secrets everyone wrote to frame the scenes. The GM is also responsible for bringing all of the characters to their final satori (end game).  Going with the labyrinth motif, you start already lost in the labyrinth. The other players create your minotaur, but it's up to you to face it.  Ideally, the players are supposed to find out who they really are and what happened to them, and the mechanics encourage this.  The reward system (as it stands now) raises their Hope level as they find more of their secrets (see below for Hope)

The mechanics of the game are based loosely on craps (a game that's commonly played on the streets and in backalleys) and is meant to represent the internal struggle going on in all the the characters.  The main attributes are going to be Hope and Despair, and they are going to be on a scale of 1-5.  Each point is a die-step (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12).  The basic idea is you've got two colored sets of dice (preferably black and white). When you make a check, you always roll two dice, a light and a dark. Your level in Hope determines the white die, despair determines the black die (i.e. Hope 3 = d8, Despair 4 = d10, etc.).

If the highest number is on the black die, you lose. If it's on the white die you win. The only thing that will trump this is the craps numbers: 2,3, and 12 (craps) will be an automatic failure, 7 and 11 (naturals) will be an automatic success.  Ultimately it's the character's own shortcomings that mostly determine the outcome. Also, you're the one rolling your own opposition.

Another important stat is Survival.  This acts as your health, strength, and general well being.  It adds a positive modifier to your Hope roll in an attack roll, and a positive modifier to your opponent's despair roll when they're attacking you.  It's not a die-step, but an added number, and it doesn't affect auto successes or failures (craps and naturals).

One of the things that got me pumped about this game in the first place was modern adventurers fighting off demons and monsters in decaying urban settings like tunnels, abandoned hospitals, etc...all the while having to deal with real world issues like survival on the street. I'm looking forward to developing these aspects once I get over the initial design hurdles.

Speaking of which, here's the issues I'm having so far that I'd like some input on:

I'm not quite sure how to represent Nothing mechanically.  One one hand, it's making the players dissapear, it's keeping them from getting out of the rut they're in, and it's manifesting their inner demons.  On the other hand, it's what's giving them their power and it's manifesting their hopes.  I want some way of representing the hold that the nothing has over the characters, but I'm not sure if it's a good thing to have a high rating or a low rating.  Lowering your Nothing rating would be beneficial in representing pulling yourself out of homelessness, but you would lose powers because of it, which is counter productive in game design (from what I gather).

The other things are minor.  I'm not sure how to make Despair fluctuate up and down yet, and I'm not sure if just finding out secrets about your past will hold up as a reward system.

Anyway, if you got down this far, thanks for taking the time to read this and feel free to pick it apart.

-Jeff

[Clyde L. Rhoer]

Hi Jeff,

Your game was the one I was most interested in from the recording that was made of that meeting. I wish I remembered some of my thoughts as I had some disagreements with the folks who were there. I'll see if I can bring them back by listening to it again. Anyway there's something I don't understand. Is the craps part put on both dice? For instance a 3 on either black or white dice causes a failure? What if I get a 3 on one and 7 on another?

I also would like to offer an alternate way to see the game. I won't be offended if you don't find it interesting, it's offered in the spirit of helpfulness.

To me it seems that threads should lead away from the fantasy powers, they reveal more of the life you've forgotten and to defeat the minotaur you have to give up your fantastic powers. Essentially you chose not to fight. This means you have to face your demons, and lose your abilities to protect yourself in a dark environment. This seems more realistic to me as it is the things that people won't give up that keeps them on the streets, or in prisons, or living low. Their pride, or their fear. I live somewhat on the low side and honestly these are the things that keep me here, my pride doesn't stand up well to backstabbing games, I fear a loss of control in those situations, so I live a somewhat isolated existence, in the level of society where I can be belligerent if I need to. So Thread leads you out of the maze. You have to realize you are not a Greek hero, you are not Theseus, you are human.

To me this is the problem of the kings, they think they can defeat the Minotaur by gaining power, and at some point they have to contest with others to gain more, but the Minotaur is kept alive by their conflict. The more of this dark magic that is in the world the stronger the minotaur gets. Or perhaps the strongest king can contest with the Minotaur, but defeating it is just stepping into it's place as the new defacto ruler by fiat. So Nothing leads towards becoming the Minotaur, you become not human, you become a Monster lost in a maze, powerful, strong, but never able to see the sunlight and beauty of the world again.

So this would give players two options. Not face their despair and gradually become the monster they fear, or wallow in the despair coming to face the past life they don't remember, allowing themselves to become weak so they can become stronger. You could have Threads give slowly more control for the players to narrate the outside world, and Nothing let the players gain more control to narrate the pocket worlds. To me this really seems like it would reinforce the tone of despair and reinforce the difficulty of making the trip back to society after you've stepped off the road. Especially if other players can strip Nothing away from those gaining Thread and force flashbacks on them.

You may also find these threads on Keith Blocker's never released game Neverwake might have something useful for inspiration:
[Neverwake] Point based resolution system
[Neverwake] Almost done! But how to regain health

[Dan Svensson]

I'm not quite sure how to represent Nothing mechanically.  One one hand, it's making the players dissapear, it's keeping them from getting out of the rut they're in, and it's manifesting their inner demons.  On the other hand, it's what's giving them their power and it's manifesting their hopes.  I want some way of representing the hold that the nothing has over the characters, but I'm not sure if it's a good thing to have a high rating or a low rating.  Lowering your Nothing rating would be beneficial in representing pulling yourself out of homelessness, but you would lose powers because of it, which is counter productive in game design (from what I gather).

Lowering the Nothing would probably mean that you're somehow less susceptible to the powers of the Nothing like some sort of innate magic resistance.

Lowering the nothing would bring you closer to the physical world and its needs. The cold and rain, hunger and fatigue, diseases and addictions, wounds and the time it takes to heal   it all affects you more the lower your Nothing rating is. The Nothing makes you feel stronger, healthier more like the person you where before

On the other hand, it's what's giving them their power and it's manifesting their hopes.

while at the same time separating you from the real world.


I've never played craps and your description doesn't tell me much. Maybe give an example or two of the system in play?


I really like your setting description Jeff. It reminds me of "Neverwhere" and "Midnight Nation". Both are top notch stories and its something i would really like to play.

[somniturne]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback!  I'll get all the questions point by point.

Your game was the one I was most interested in from the recording that was made of that meeting.

Thanks!  Anyone who wanted to hear the recording it can be found here: http://www.sonsofkryos.com/DR07Roundtable.mp3.  The stuff that pertains to my game starts at an hour and six minutes in.

Let me try to explain the system a little better.  Ace and Pete are in a fight.  Ace has Hope 3, Despair 2 and Survival 4.  Pete has Hope 2, Despair 4 and Survival 2.  Ace gets the first shot in.  He picks up a White d8 (Hope 3) and a Black d6 (Despair 2).  He rolls.  The white lands on a 4, the black lands on a 5.  He adds his survival (4) to the white "Hope" die, and Pete's survival (2) to the black "Despair" die.  The final result is Hope is 8, Despair is 7.  Hope is higher, so Ace succeeds in his atttack.  Now it's Pete's turn.  He picks up a white d6 and a black d10 and rolls.  He gets a white 2 and a black 5.  Normally this would be a failure, but because it's a natural 7, he succeds and hits Ace back.

The craps and naturals need to be the combination of the numbers on both dice, before modifiers.

Clyde, I'm not offended at all if anyone suggests slternate ways of looking at the game.  That's why I brought it here.  A friend of mine actually brought up a similar idea, that you were losing power as you got further along in the game.  While that works really well philosophically, it comes back to the issue of why anyone would even want to leave the fantasy world in the first place.  Also it may be frusturating in a game sense.

I do like the idea that you have to let things go however.  Maybe I could work that into the chargen...you have to build flaws into your character to leave behind while the other players makes secrets you need to face.  The kings have become monsters because they let their flaws become them.

I also really like the idea of slowly handing off the narration the further you get from the fantasy world.  I have no clue as to how to work that but it's something I'm going to need to figure out.

You may also find these threads on Keith Blocker's never released game Neverwake might have something useful for inspiration:

...wow, that is actually really close to what I'm going for.  It's interesting in a different way though.  Thanks for pointing me towards it!

Lowering the Nothing would probably mean that you're somehow less susceptible to the powers of the Nothing like some sort of innate magic resistance.  Lowering the nothing would bring you closer to the physical world and its needs. The cold and rain, hunger and fatigue, diseases and addictions, wounds and the time it takes to heal   it all affects you more the lower your Nothing rating is. The Nothing makes you feel stronger, healthier more like the person you where before

This is really intriguing.  I need to play around with this idea.

Thanks so much for the feedback so far!

[Clyde L. Rhoer]

Hi Jeff,

So the craps part comes first adding both dice, and if none of the auto-craps results goes off, we compare die plus trait versus die plus trait to determine the results. That's pretty cool.

Ace gets the first shot in... Hope is higher, so Ace succeeds in his atttack.  Now it's Pete's turn....

This sounds like you are using task resolution. It makes me wonder. Have you already considered conflict resolution and decided against it? If so I'm curious why? It seems this game would be ripe for conflict resolution as it sounds like it's more about issues than reinforcing the setting, or perhaps a mix of conflict resolution and task resolution. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I talk about task resolution versus conflict resolution in my somewhat warbly second podcast. If that doesn't help I can type more about it.

I do like the idea that you have to let things go however.  Maybe I could work that into the chargen...you have to build flaws into your character to leave behind while the other players makes secrets you need to face.  The kings have become monsters because they let their flaws become them.

Myself I was really digging on how the other players would be essentially creating your character through flashbacks, I think if you have the player define their own flaws you remove from that some. That may or may not be a bad thing, depending on your goals. I like the idea, assuming from my suggested framework, that moving towards reality means you have to accept what you are given. You could find out you were a horrible person, a good person, a wanted person, etc. You'd have to accept who that person was, and with other people creating that person it's very likely there would be things you wouldn't like about the person. This may make immersion hard for some folks however, so if immersion is important to your goals you may want to give that some consideration.

I also really like the idea of slowly handing off the narration the further you get from the fantasy world.  I have no clue as to how to work that but it's something I'm going to need to figure out.

I think this would be fairly easy with conflict resolution. You define the scope of what a player can narrate if they win by their rank in Hope for the outside world or Despair for the inside world. So say the character is trying to feed themselves. Maybe a 2 lets them 'spange' (asking people for change/handouts) enough money to buy a sandwich. Perhaps an 8 let's them find a job as a dishwasher with free meals at work. 

So pushing for powers makes it hard for them to even feed themselves, while pushing to come to terms with themselves could put them in danger. I think you are right that some folks may find this frustrating. I know a lot of Indy designers push for a clear reward system and this idea would reward and punish you whichever way you choose. I found through playtesting a design I've shelved that rewarded and punished at the same time, that my playtesters would still push for one way or the other. This doesn't mean it's universal, but I would totally play for my character to come to terms with themselves and chose the harder path. A clear reward system would be to do as you're planning and make coming to terms with yourself and fighting the minotaur in the same direction. I think that's less appealing to me but still appealing, but it doesn't matter what I think, but what you think.

I also noticed that you are making some similar design choices to what I am for my game, characters starting as blank slates and being defined by other players is exactly what I'm doing. I might have other ideas you might find useful since you seem to be thinking mechanically similar to me in some ways. My playtest thread is here. It also has link's to my other posts that might have interesting stuff, please don't post in those old threads though as posting in old threads is considered bad form at the Forge.

I'm going to give a rest to pushing ideas at you now. I'm totally happy to keep talking if you have specific questions though.

[somniturne]

This sounds like you are using task resolution. It makes me wonder. Have you already considered conflict resolution and decided against it? If so I'm curious why?

It actually was a conscious decision.  I've got a bit of a gamist slant to me.  I find that the only reason to have any randomizer in a game is to add to the suspense.  Chris Bateman (a RPG designer turned video game designer) defined the moment where you cast the dice as a moment of epiphany...anything can happen, and that's where you get the thrill of gambling and other dice games from.  I feel like with Conflict resolution it just gets glossed over, and it's just a way to help determine how the narrative goes.  While I feel that the dice should have a hand in the narrative, the suspense that comes with a slightly heavier dice system is something I feel is important to the game.  I want there to be an adventurous overtone to the game.  One of the big inspirations for the is the Maxx, which did a great job of mixing action/adventure with deep psychological expoloration. 

I'm still open to suggestions though. I think the conflict resolution works well for handing off narration like you mentioned below. I'll check ouy your game and your podcast.