Alpha: Call of the Pack - Feedback Request

[Tythorin]

Hey everyone.
I'm new here to the forums here and have always had an interest in RPG design. This is realy the first real project I'm taking on and I'm looking for feedback.

Specificaly:
Has the two part style of the game been done before?
If so, what games?
Is there, in your opinion, a market for this style of game?
What are your opinoins on the general setting of the game? Interesting? Worth looking/buying into? Done to many times before?
What mecahnics would you suggest using for the two layers of the game? I have my own ideas/plans for this but I just want to see what routes other people would go.
Anything that you need clarified? Questions on the setting?

Forgive me as I've only got my Big Three so far. More to come.

Alpha: Call of the Pack
The Big Three:

1. What is your game about?
A:CotP focus is around a select group of individuals know as the pack. Packs are groups of supernatural creatures, ranging from shape shifting werewolves to spellbinding wizards. These packs are bound under a special supernatural known as an Alpha. Alphas are immortal and have the ability to draw supernatural abilities from those who follow them and as such gain the collective power of their pack. Supernaturals are drawn to Alphas under the seductive promise of eternal youth, often only to learn to late it is gift that may at moment be taken away and they will age in seconds every year for which the Alpha prolonged their life. As such supernaturals who have spent many years with an Alpha will protect their leader at all costs for his death would often mean their own. For many generations ancient Alphas have manipulated the world from behind the scenes but now as a new generation of packs rises unwilling to bow to the tyranny of old the pack war once again begins in the shadows. However the pack has a terrible weakness. In the rays of the sun their supernatural powers fade and the discovery of ones daylight identity could mean death at the gunpoint of a mortal thug.

In A:CotP each player controls not one character but an entire pack. This means that the game functions on two levels. The first level of play is the pack level. At this level the player controls the actions of the pack broadly and impersonally. The player has so many resources to spend on recruiting and training supernaturals as well as meddling in mortal affairs such as rigging political elections, bribing police or building new hideouts. It is also here that each player declares what each member of their pack is doing. The second level of play is at the character level. While some actions of pack members will be a simple role of the dice the GM may determined that any action must be role-played. This may either be due to the action the pack member is taking or due to some circumstance such as an ambush by a rival pack member. Players should also be allowed to role-play the action of their pack member if they specifically wish to due so. On this level the character takes the role of one or more pack members who are taking part on the assignment. Note that these are all considered player characters and none of them are under the control of the GM. While on this level characters may run into characters of another players pack. (It is important to note that in this game the players are not on a "team" they are their team and while different packs may band together to overcome obstacles they are rivals at best, sworn enemies  at worst and rarely ever friends.) The GM should make note of each of the packs assignments and note when characters may cross. Characters may also cross with members of Non-player packs which are controlled by the GM.
   
2. What do the characters do?
Characters are more extensions of the pack differing from the usual " this is who I represent in this world" philosophy. However characters still have the full roleplaying values of characters in other systems.

There are two main types of characters alphas and non-alphas. The alpha is the most primary member of a pack. They are the leaders of their packs and there may only be one. An alpha's power grows with the power of their pack. They can copy any power that their one of their pack members can use. They are also immune to the draining effect of sunlight and may use their powers at any time of day. However alphas have one weakness, they have no supernatuals gifts on their own and if their pack is destroyed they are rendered powerless. As characters alphas lead their packs and try to promote their own agendas and lusts for power. Though technically a player doesn't represent a single character the alpha of your pack is the closest thing to.

Non-alpha supernaturals are the tools of the pack. They need the Alpha to sustain their youth and the alpha in turn relies on them for the source of his power. This forms a linked reliance between the alpha and his pack. Non-alpha characters primarily carry out assignments for the pact. Expanding control over mortal affairs, researching new dark powers, recruiting new members and most importantly battling rival packs for territory.

And while the war in the shadows rages on characters must dodge the Order of Gabriel. A secret government organization bent on destroying the supernatural threat by fighting fire with fire.

3. What do the players do?
Players do not control a single character but instead an entire pack. They can send their members on missions to expand their power, battle rival packs, destroying them or beating them into submission, or simply send a few characters over to a local bar for some downtime role-play. Another important facet of the player is using his pack to interact with GM plots. GM plots are events going on in the world around the players' packs. In A:CotP GM plots take to forms. Main plots are plots which cannot be avoided due to their influence in the area, such as the townspeople rising up to create a second witch hunt. Subplots are plots which players may or may not take part in or may have to discover first. These plots often give a reward to the pack which completes them such as the search for a pendant that allows a werewolf to shift forms without the light of the full moon. A:CotP is encouraged to be run as sandbox game with large amounts of friendly but brutal competition between players with many subplots where players compete to gain the reward, battles over territory, bids for powers over mortal affairs and main plots where players will be forced to band there packs together to face a greater threat.     

[Simon C]

This is an interesting idea.  As for whether there's a market for it or not, who can say?  I don't think anyone really knows what will be popular and what won't, but one thing's for sure:  Don't make the game unless you're passionate about it, and if you're passionate about it, don't let anything stop you.  Even if your game is widly successful, you're probably not going to get back in money anything close to what you put in in time.  Do it for the love of it, and if it's successful (and we're all wishing you luck) then consider that a bonus.

One thing that came to mind about your game is that you've got this great system for creating interesting relationships between characters (the pack), but then all those characters are controlled by a single player. It means often some of the most interesting drama will be played out by one person talking to themselves.  Not ideal.  Have you thought about more "troupe style" play?  What if each player makes an "Alpha", and also a member of every other Alpha's pack?  That way, each player can get involved in the overall direction of their pack, while still getting involved in party-style mission play.  It would help to make each character stand out in their own right, rather than becoming just a unit in the pack.  This might interfere with the competitive atmosphere you're trying to create, but it also might help it.  If every Alpha must beware betrayal from within their ranks, and suspect the motives of their packmates, I think it could really add to the atmosphere of the game. 

I think the GM role is another problematic part of your game.  It sounds like a lot of work, and maybe not so much fun.  Does your game need a GM?  What if the GM was different for every Pack? For example, each player could have an "opposite number" who takes on GM duties for their pack.  Players could come up with "Sub Plots" and "GM Plots" together. 

[Tythorin]

Alright. Let me sum up my aims for the GM within the game.
The GMs primary roles are:
*The Setting - Either creating a city specificaly for the campaign or researching/editing to suit a existing city such as New York.
*NPC Packs - I envision a large amount of the game being the ideals of new packs versus those that have been around for generations. As such most cities will have very strong pre-existing packs which the newly born player controled packs may often have to band together to survive. I want to create a world where players may fight on the same side one night but directly apose eachother the next. I find this difficult to achieve without a GM.
*Order of Gabriel - Secret goverment controled pack out to destroy supernatural threats... not sure how to handle that one GMless.
However I do like the Pack A GMs Pack B who GMs Pack C...etc idea.

As far as player relationships are concerned I very rarely see three or more members of the same pack on the same assignment. I intend most roleplaying to come from when the assignments of members of seperate packs collide. One of the main reasons for designing the game as I have it is because most of my gaming group struggles with this problem: "I have 12 different characters I want to play but your saying I can only have one?!" Hence our 4 player DnD group usual has a 12 character party.

However if the player want to play a single pack or control members of eachothers packs I see no reason not to. In the end Ill probably have to write half a dozen various "Game Play Varients" *shrug*

[masqueradeball]

One thing, and I don't at all mean to be a jerk here, but how is your world going to be different then The World of Darkness in either of its incarnations, or, for that matter, Unknown Armies, Hell Blazer/DC Comics, whatever. Obviously packs and Alphas adds a neat twist on an old theme, but every time I've set down to do modern horror I feel overwhelmed at trying not to repeat what others have done while still staying true to the feel and the source material that all horror stories draw on.
I guess I'm just asking because differentiating is something I find hard to do, so I guess I hope you don't have the same problem. Still, and I'm just speaking for me here, when I see any game doing modern horror (especially when its got sort or a revisionist tone) I start thinking about all the times its been done and wonder if its worth looking into yet another interpretation.

[Tythorin]

Don't worry. It's a perfectly vallid and important to answer question. Ill give you a list of how my game differs from the others out there and I'll let you decide if its enough to spark your interest.

First of all, and its important to note, I am not a horror writer. I've never had any real interest in the horror genre whether it be books, movies or RPGs. However I've always had a love for supernatural creature and the way they effect/influence society. As such the book plays down the "somthings in the darks going to eat me" and the "I'm a monster" factors that most horror stories use. Instead it plays up the superheros genre, except scratch heros and add the "only at night" claus. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people coming to this game looking for another modern horror arn't going to find it. What people will find is anothther superhero game with a supernatural, horror slant to it. So its witches, warlocks and werewolves instead of mutants in capes but many of themes of supers games will crossover. Summery, while the game can cover modern horror, it is not built with that goal in mind.

Well I have to run for the moment, school, but I'll finnish answering your question as soon as I get back. And do tell me if any of this answers your questions.

[masqueradeball]

Sounds cool, but now I'm a little confused on how a basic story would play out... Lets say I'm a GM planing on running a session of your game, what would I need to do?

[Tythorin]

As a GM planning on running the main things you'll need to do:
Choose a Setting: This can be a condensed urban region such as large city or your game could focus on a croader scale such as a large farming community. Once you've decided on an area you'll need to figure out the pre-existing NPC packs in the area, each pack has a 'pack sheet' similar to most character sheets' giving the packs statistics such as members, resources, number of hideouts, etc. Then you'll also need to do the actual character stats for members of those packs. It's realy not nessesary to do this for all of the supernaturals in the region, just the ones the PC packs have a good chance of running into.
Running Plots/Subplots: As a GM you will want to have a list of main and sub plots. Main plots function similarly to the primary story archs in most campaigns and they usual threaten the players packs. Main plots are usual designed in the spirit of getting the players to band together against a stronger force. Sub plots are all about power. They are the bread and butter of most sessions and as a GM you will likely want to have several on hand. Subplots work in the spirit of if the pack can accomplish this goal they gain 'X'. Unlike main plots subplots aim to turn the players packs against eachother in compitition for greater power.

Assuming the player already knew the rules, the start of a new campaign would be somthing like this.
Before the game the GM has choosen that he wants to break away from the typical urban setting and decideds to run his game near a large farming community. He decides due to its low population there is only one ruling pack in the region led by an alpha known as Emilia. Emilia is an alpha obsessed with spellcraft and as such has brought together many supernatuals of 'mystical' abilities. He stats the pack and several of thw witches and warlocks he believes the player may encounter. For his main plot he decides that a large pack consisting pimarily of werewolves and other shapeshifters have been forced out of their territory by another pack and have fled into the region. For subplots he decides that a witch purge took place several hundred years ago but at several of the sites of burning the ashes of the witches remain and carry the essense of their power if the players can find these sites they will gain a valuable asset to ward off enemy spells.

At the begining of the session the GM explains the setting his player and asks them to design their packs and their reason for wanting to expand their territory in the region. Each player then designs their pack, their alpha and two other characters for their pack aswell as their packs hideout.

As the game begins the Gm describes the dusk of a new night and the gathering of the packs. He may also at this point give the packs other information he deems nesessary. Such as telling them of rumors that large amounts of livestock have been murdered in the night by what farmers believe to be a pack of 'wolves' would be a hint of his current main plot. Each player then decides what each member of his pack is doing. The GM notes this down and decides where the characters are likely to cross paths. Hopefuly as the characters carry out their assignments and the GM unleashes his vile plans the night will fall into brutal chaos to see who comes out on top, fun will be had by all and the back will be one step closer, or further, from their goals.

[masqueradeball]

OK... so obviously the main theme is pack v. pack with all the player packs competing against one or more NPC packs while simultaneously competing with each other. Are there going to be any mechanics handling prestige/status/whatever of each pack? How physical are conflicts going to be? I guess my main question is one of tone. Is it an action movie, a comic book, a novel? What do the characters look like, are werewolves, for instance, large half-man half-wolf Crinos like creatures or they men who change into wolves or are they something in between, perhaps like the dire wolf in An American Werewolf in London.
Also, how much effort would a player be putting into each of the characters in their pack? My only experiences with multi-characters per player had the players designing one character they liked and then the rest of the characters would either be simple stereotypes or comic relief. Also, is mortality a big deal. I could see having a lot of un-important secondary pack members adding something in how lethal you could play the game without it really affecting the player's involvement/feeling to directly.
And on a personal note, although I really like your idea, I'd be afraid of running it because I think it could quickly turn into either a) unabashed power-gaming (which lots of people enjoy, but I like my power gaming to be abashed) or b) tactical board game style play (though this sounds like an AWESOME premise for a board game). So, when you get there, if your aiming at making the game something that others can purchase/download/whatever and play, I'd love to try it out, but I'd need lots of advice on how to handle it.