Patrons

[Seth M. Drebitko]

So I was thinking the other day about the idea of why demons are compelled to steal away souls through shady contracts? I decided upon the demon actually stealing away the souls to trade places with in order to keep from having to hasten their trip to the pit.

I see two options for players:

Enterprising demons looking to track down the most highly corrupt souls to trade for another moments freedom.

Desperate mortals whose demonic power is slipping from their grasp as they desperately attempt to out wit and out run their demon patron.

As far as style I am thinking ghost rider style setting for sure just looking to see what people think of the base idea.

I am looking to:

Choose a theme for demons

Decide what characters get as powers

I need:

Opinions of what people would like to see from both of the above.

I would like to get some feed back as far as what people would like to see because I would like to develop this as a mini supplement (as there has not been one in a while) that people would actually be interested in seeing.

Regards, Seth

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

What does sorcery look and feel like? What does a demon look like and do? Can you describe an admirable sorcerer?

I also think it's interesting that you have taken "steal away souls" as a starting point for your questions to yourself. You realize that in the text, no such thing is stated, right? I mean, it's OK to work from there if you want, as long as you realize that it's what you want.

Best, Ron

[Seth M. Drebitko]

Sorry I suppose the post was a little limp at first. I did not mean demons in your work specifically as being the take away the soul type, but instead the way society views them.

I see sorcerers as an eclectic group of generally gritty and dangerous fellows looking to stay a step ahead of the rat race. They will often come into heavy moral conflict with themselves when their master comes knocking seeking the next soul to satiate his need for freedom.

On the off hand I can certainly see a subset of sorcerers struggling to do the good work cleaning up the streets and using the power of the sinners soul to give them the fuel they need to strike out at the darkness. These individuals I see as fanatical warriors in most respects, and in better light they may be truly good people trading the life of a sinner to save as many innocents as they can.

Sorcerers all in all are shady fellows, as no matter what side of the fence your on it's a dirty morally shallow business.

Demons I see as an equally if not more eclectic group of desperate, scattered beasts. They have long since terminated any hope of redemption drawn to far into their devious ways, to turn back to the light. They are tough task masters passing out imps (sorcerer the games version of demons) to only the most proven of sorcerers. It's a constant struggle to contract the most vicious morally hollow sorcerers to stay a step ahead of their brethren. For those sorcerers who might turn their backs on their masters it is a hard long road, and surely it will not end well for them.

Imps are the equivalency of sorcerers demons, the bound souls of a deceased sorcerer passed out by the demons to other sorcerers that they might use their power to subdue more souls. In the case that a demon actually dies all of the imps which he has sired are free to roam. The freedom of an imp is a short lived thing quickly ending when a "freelancer" or more commonly another demon captures them.

Free lancers I am still debating if I want these in yet. They are basically sorcerers who are not tied to a demon but have instead stolen and imp away from a demon, or captured a free imp.

That's about what I am working with right now, not exactly sure in which flavor directions I want to go, and I am trying to decide the theme in which the demons will follow. Again sorry for the short post prior ( I had to quickly type as the computer was getting snagged from me).

Regards, Seth 

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

I apologize for the delay in replying.

Your first sentence in the last post really threw me and I guess I still don't understand it - or even what you mean by "patron." Is that the same thing as the Bound demon, in game terms? At first I thought so, and then the mention of "imps" really confused me further.

On the other hand, your descriptions of sorcerers and demons are great and I'd love to play. I don't see how any of that has anything to do with patronage, though, so I must not get it yet.

Can you help me understand better?

Best, Ron

[Seth M. Drebitko]

Sorry myself for not responding, or getting the idea out straight.


Patron: [noun] someone who supports or champions something

There is a hierarchy in the world of mages which must be respected and it goes in this order.

     "Demons" they are more or less ancient neigh untouchable beasts resting in the fiery pit, taking every chance they can to get their hands on just one more soul. It is a demons cosmic duty to feed the furnaces of hell souls of mortals to keep them burning (the infinite expanses of heaven are tough to heat!). The Main two ways a demon can affect our world is through the threat of a particularly bad afterlife (ending up a demons marshmallow), or through possession of particularly weak willed individuals.

     Imps are a demons key bargaining tool since they themselves can't actually operate directly in our realm. An Imp is the term used for an individual who has died, but instead of being thrown into hells fiery depths has been hand picked by the demons for certain deviant qualities they had in life. Effectively they become a concept embedded in an item of some sort which on the material realm can produce a variety of supernatural effects. Basically these Imps are souls turned into evil intelligent magic weapons.

Imps function very much like demons do now except they will have different power options, and be less resistant to their masters. Otherwise at the moment imps can be handled just like in the normal rules.

     "Sorcerer" an individual who has obtained at least one Imp in which he uses for his various goals on Earth. In the end no mater how scummy and vile these individuals are they are always fighting for some cause, which is why I refer to them as Patrons. The only fear they have is that after their lives end they are in for some serious torment if they don't please their respective demon.

A sorcerer consists of basically the normal stuff a sorcerer would with a very heavy emphasis placed on goals. I am thinking of implementing something along the lines of paladins sin pyramid to represent the rigid demands of their demons. Humanity will be used still but as a modifier to social roles, instead the players over all set of ideals will act as their primary humanity set. To stray to far from them represents a break in the characters ability to identify himself to the world around him leaving him open for possession and ultimately death.   

This weekend I am hoping to work out the details of imps to post up. I do hope I was able to clear any confusion up I apologies about not properly conveying my thoughts before on the setting. This post should have been able to explain the three groups a little better which is what I think the problem was

I have also been thinking the last couple days at my work that it might be interesting to add into the mix "Saints". Saints would act as fanatical members of the holy roman church charged with the souls of actual saints (similar to imps) in an attempt to rid the world of sorcerers. Not sure if they would be playable to players but could server as a fun antagonist to throw in the mix.

I would like any opinions or suggestions on the general info provided thus far that way I can apply it to the mechanical and aesthetic aspects of what I will be posting this weekend.

Regards, Seth

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

Let's see if I have this right - the "patrons" are the sorcerers, right? Which is sort of weird, because I get the idea that you're also thinking of the demon-to-sorcerer relationship as patronage too.

Anyway, I suggest staying strictly with the vision. No need for angelic anyone, no need for holy opposition, no need for rogue sorcerers, or anything like that. All of that is the familiar proliferative - yet fruitless and distracting - sourcebook type thinking. Never mind all that; Plan A is good, so go with Plan A.

The "afterlife" thing seems to me to be quite weak. I see no particular reason for a sorcerer not to Bind imps to his heart's delight, with Humanity operating as the only limiting factor, and basically tell the big demon to fuck off any way and any how, at all times. Your mention of the threatening "awful afterlife" seems like a meaningless threat - after all, the only way that the sorcerer might suffer it is if he obeys the demon, right?

Help me understand that part a little bit better. However, you should know that Sorcerer is designed to operate on a basis of setting-uncertainty. There may be rules for demons, but that doesn't mean there's a Hell, even if the demons really think they come from there. The metaphysics of the game-world are forever and utterly closed, both to the characters and to the real people playing the game.

Best, Ron