Post Ruin RPG Game Intro - What are your thoughts?

[DrelPryn]

Currently I have created a Post-ruin RPG based dark scifi gaming world
tentatively coined "Forsaken"; the name best describes those who
remain on the distant world. Here is the link to the introduction to
my game.
CAUTION - I am NOT an English major so my grammar or writing structure
still need work. Any feedback is welcomed.

http://forsaken.neuralcity.net/docs/intro.html

Beyond the into the game world boils down to mostly survival and
ingenuity. There are 12 character profession with individual
advantages and some disadvantages. A good mix of classes provides a
diverse set of skills that are very important. Adventuring consists of
exploring the various regions and finding technological remains and
"artifacts". Food is a valued commodity and barter remains the
standard currency. The purpose of adventuring is finding "valuables"
to trade or use as well as knowledges and learning skills. As the
adventures continue, slowly the story of what had befallen the
original colony unfolds. Also there is a great deal of political
activity and the beginning of a civil war as the various groups
compete over valuable resources.

There are MANY dangers to be watchful for; dangerous wildlife,
cannibalistic barbarians, bandits, and mutated humans known as
"Aberrants" . The environment is dry and harsh with both chemical and
nuclear was hazards.

Current technology is low tech but with great variation by region
ranging from spear wielding tribesmen to musket bearing and some
possessing advanced artifacts. Oh well enough for now until I get more
documentation down from my notebook.

Drel Pryn

[Callan S.]

Hi Drel, welcome to the forge!

Are you working on it and have any questions about that? You might not have noticed the signposts around the place, but this is a workshop forum. So if your post isn't about working on the design, its missplaced. That's the spirit of this forum and I'm sure you don't try to clash with the spirit of the various forums you visit.

What are you working on currently, with the design?

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi Drel,

As the adventures continue, slowly the story of what had befallen the original colony unfolds.

Is this a story already written and part of the game?  Is it something the GM makes up before the game starts or as you go along?  Is it a story that everyone makes up together?

Since you mentioned a lot of stuff about survival and hazard, does having a character die slow down finding out more about this history, or does it simply mean you've lost a character you might have cared about?

Or is the story just there as a little bonus between fighting to stay alive?

Chris

[DrelPryn]

As the adventures continue, slowly the story of what had befallen the original colony unfolds.

Is this a story already written and part of the game?  Is it something the GM makes up before the game starts or as you go along?  Is it a story that everyone makes up together?
- This is just the background story that I was planning on using to get players interested in playing in the campaign world and even the background info the players receive in the beginning about their world will vary depending on profession or social background (ie a scientist will have more accurate info about the past where as a barbarian may perceive more divine origins.)
The game as I have it curently is set up in three time periods
(1.) out of the ruins, (2.) unification,and (3) Contact!
Each period starts with a generalized history but this leave a great amount of history to be "made up" by the referee to suit their needs. Also each period increases the local levels of technology available locally; barter is the standard currency until the second period.

Since you mentioned a lot of stuff about survival and hazard, does having a character die slow down finding out more about this history, or does it simply mean you've lost a character you might have cared about?

Or is the story just there as a little bonus between fighting to stay alive?

- The survival and hazards are just additional ways to die but are not meant to slowly kill the group. In one test session the party encountered a barbarian village and after careful discussions the barbarians informed the group where the "sickness" was found (ie radiation from a waste dump).
The game is really designed more for role-playing and is task oriented although combat and death does happen to the unwise... Oh and yes the story is a bonus for surviving. Since this is NOT a level based system other motivations must come into use to motivate a group. Experience, knowledge, status, equipment, artifacts are but a few things to motivate...

As far as game mechanics being redeveloped - I have been reworking the experience points and skill system and adding some knowledges that are a more general (ie learning an additional language or the ability to use technology or literacy vs having a handgun skill)

So should a knowledge of whatever be the equivalent to say a combat skill? If a character wants to know basic chemistry but will seldom actually use the skill should they just buy it as a skill which has 10 levels or just buy it once as a general catch all?
I had this as an actual problem in the game.

So what did everyone think of the game intro? Was it lame? or did it sound interesting?
Or better still is should there be a different place for this post?

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi Drel,

So what exactly do you see a group doing in a given adventure?  What kinds of things do you see them doing over the course of, say, 5, or 10 adventures?

You give an example of a group dealing with radiation, etc.- are the PCs going around problem solving?  Or simply hunting artifacts/resources?

How would you be changing XP?  Would it be awarded for something specific or different? ("3 XP anytime you discover a new artifact")  Would it be at a different rate?

So far, what you've described very much sounds like a neat campaign world, but as you've mentioned, you can probably use an existing game engine.  It's where you plan on doing something different from the games you've played before, it's where you want to push things in a different direction, that's where you're going to find interesting stuff to design.

Chris

[DrelPryn]

So what exactly do you see a group doing in a given adventure?  What kinds of things do you see them doing over the course of, say, 5, or 10 adventures?

Adventures are usually based on an adventure seed OR maybe a rumor a player may have heard. I have written the basis for 30 adventure seed that I have given a difficulty rating from
1 (beginning character) to a 5 (very advanced character). An entry adventure seed might be
to find some computer parts for some patron in exchange for something else. This means the group will talk to a number of people in a city, town or village or maybe venture into the wilderness with information about a likely location for such an item. The early adventures tend to be acquiring the equipment and resources to adventure further from their starting location. Equipment needs will vary depending on character class (ie an Artificer will need tool to create or repair like make gunpowder for explosives; a Scientist might need a hand computer for data storage and research; an Armsman better weapons/armor) also food in the urban areas are scarce and in much demand.
A more advanced adventure might include exploring a lost alien city or meeting aliens themselves!

You give an example of a group dealing with radiation, etc.- are the PCs going around problem solving?  Or simply hunting artifacts/resources?

Some character types will try to solve problems (ie An Emissary, Healer or Scientist) while others may become a problem (ie Rogue). Usually PC's will be hunting for food, information, resources (food), people or artifacts.

How would you be changing XP?  Would it be awarded for something specific or different? ("3 XP anytime you discover a new artifact")  Would it be at a different rate?

Experience points (1-3 typically) are awarded for the PRIOR gaming session based on what they individually contributed. Alternately if a major goal or adventure was completed  up to 5 exp MIGHT be granted. Also bonus xp is awarded for outstanding role playing their character or for occasional brilliance from the PC. What I plan on changing is maybe having some skills handled differently like have "basic" skills such as climbing, tech use or literacy being purchased differently than increasing medical-3 to medical of 4 (not sure about this yet).

So far, what you've described very much sounds like a neat campaign world, but as you've mentioned, you can probably use an existing game engine.  It's where you plan on doing something different from the games you've played before, it's where you want to push things in a different direction, that's where you're going to find interesting stuff to design.

What I do like about my system is a couple of things, the charcter classes and their individual special abilities (ie an Esper with psionics,Scientists figuring out tech or an Artificer fixing or creating items). Also my combat resolution is efficient and moves along well. I still need to work on my Psionics and Abberants(mutant humans) and a number of other areas....

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi Drel,

So is the fundamental difference your game provides a different set of abilities and combat system?  Is there a link to the actual rules anywhere?  I followed the link and got a page with setting info.   I couldn't find any other links.

I guess a useful line of questions would be what sort of influences does your set of rules have- what games have you played that made you say, "I want my rules to do this", or "I never want my rules to do that!" etc?

Thanks,

Chris

[DrelPryn]

Chris,

I would like to first say that I very much appreciate your interest in my world 

Is there a link to the actual rules anywhere?  I followed the link and got a page with setting info. I couldn't find any other links.

I JUST started doing the documentation and currently this is all I have posted. Still the game has some areas to be finished and more play testing is needed but I will be posting my future material at http://forsaken.neuralcity.net . But hey, we have much to discuss....

I guess a useful line of questions would be what sort of influences does your set of rules have- what games have you played that made you say, "I want my rules to do this", or "I never want my rules to do that!" etc?

This is an excellent question. To start with I don't care for level based system (d20, AD&D earlier editions) or there restrictive class systems. The earlier Gamma World games were ok but had no classes or poor character development. Spacemaster/Rolemaster although level based was too rules heavy and combat with more than a few players would be VERY time consuming. Traveller by GDW and Marc Miller was ok but without MAJOR work is not a good fit for this genre and it's Psionics is weak at best. GURPS would be about the closest fit for my world with a good charcter system, Psionics, Robotics. This problem with GURPS is there is no real classes and characters in this genre tend to be somewhat generic and lack identity, however GURPS could still work. What I like about my system is each class has an identity with some specific advantages for their profession. Although a Scientist don't start with a  combat skill there are no penalty's as to what is learned in the future. The classes in my game denotes SOME decree of specialization or disposition to an area of skill. An Emissary will by nature try to negotiate out MOST hostile situation where as an Armsman will ask few if any questions but the before mentioned Emissary could still become a good combatant. Class is also a measure of social standing in a society as well. An Abberant (mutant human) will rarely receive any respect outside of their enclaves unless they have performed some great service to a community where as a Healer is readily welcome by everyone. The concept is also a return to an Arch-type style of system but with less restriction. Most of my classes actually have a medieval equivalent and therefore a good mix of characters are a very good thing...

Drel Pryn

[Chris_Chinn]

Hi Drel,

So, does the GM:

a) Prepare an "adventure" which consists of a preplanned set of possible plots, which the players will knowingly or unknowingly choose from, and plot events are revealed along the way

b) Prepare some locations, and some NPCs, based on a story seed and play out the NPCs without any preplanned outcomes

c) something else?

Chris

[DrelPryn]

Chris,

So, does the GM:

a) Prepare an "adventure" which consists of a preplanned set of possible plots, which the players will knowingly or unknowingly choose from, and plot events are revealed along the way

YES


b) Prepare some locations, and some NPCs, based on a story seed and play out the NPCs without any preplanned outcomes

YES

c) something else?

After the first session my group played they only actually played one adventure seed because they just went off exploring into a mountainous area looking for new unspoiled ruins. About 5 days out they had a random encounter of a very large reptilian predator. Using some tactics and their scarce *starting equipment - (2) improvised explosive charges and a double barrel shotgun with (10) rounds carried in a pouch they managed to bring this large creature down without major injuries to themselves. They then salvaged LOTS of meat from the creature (tasted like chicken). As the group traveled deep into the mountains they encountered some barbarian which the Emissary had offered some food and dialog. This was important because this added to an already decent reaction roll (rolled a 10 on 2d6) so the barbarians turned out somewhat friendly. After travelling to the barbarian village and meeting the chief the party is informed about the sickness (radiation) that lies to the west and speaks of devils (group of rogues/bandits) that come down from their lair (old mining camp) further up in the mountains and had killed some barbarians.
So through some chance encounters and favorable dice rolls the party ends of finding a mining camp, some rogues to fight and afterwards some prisoners and some more equipment...
I guess I ended up using just one adventure seed - the mining camp but only because of the barbarians. If the encounter would have going the other way it is unlikely they would have found the mining camp and would have ended up fighting the barbarians! Sometimes a little diplomacy pays off....

* Starting equipment is based on character class

Drel Pryn

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Drel, I recommend looking over Chris' questions again, from the beginning of the thread. He's asked some things which you are missing or skipping.

I also want to point out something: in his last post, he asked which was the case of two possibilities. Those possibilities are not compatible. They cannot occur simultaneously. It's like asking "inside or outside?" One cannot answer "both."

However, you did answer "YES" to both. That's not possible. I recommend reading his options again and recognizing that this is a choice, not a menu of included items. Unless you make it clear which option that you really, really want to see in play when people use your game, then there's no way for any of us here to help you develop it.

Best, Ron

[DrelPryn]

Gentlemen,

Let me see if I can sum this up a little better.

The roll of the GM for adventures is completely up to their preference and NOT mine.
I say this because in some systems adventures are walked through with a predetermined out come (at least a generalized one). Other systems just let the characters wander without any goals and are very open-ended. I am planning on offering a little of both for the novice GM who would prefer some adventure seeds to get started as well as an ongoing situation that is taking place around them or the GM can do what ever they please.

I would envision the average GM would create some NPC, prepare an adventure and between the larger adventures use some adventure seeds. I have notice that with most groups that if there is no "push" to the campaigns they groups become like boats with out rudders and then get bored.

It's like asking "inside or outside?" One cannot answer "both."

Deciding what style to administer is like wearing a reversible vest (light colored inside, dark outside) and that is you decide what best suits you immediate situation I just want people to enjoy themselves.

Well we have regressed a bit but I still have things to sort out on my RPG roadmap and finish some work on my website.

Thank You,

Drel Pryn

[Ron Edwards]

Either/or is a hell of a lot better answer than "both." I like your reversible vest analogy.

Would one of the sides include the possibility of character-driven goals? Your example leads me to think that the answer is "yes." If the players had stated they wanted their characters to, for example, set up an alliance with the barbarians, or who knows, maybe even join their tribe, then my (hesitant) perception is that you, as GM, would have accepted that and turned your preparation for the next session in that direction. Is that correct?

The reason I'm sticking with this issue and asking these questions is that all of your answers will set up a framework for specific mechanics: those which deal with character creation, character improvement, or other rewards of play. If only the follow-the-adventure scenarios were possible, then certain mechanics for character improvement are better than others; if only make-goals-or-sit-there scenarios were possible, then different mechanics for character improvement are better than others.

Now that I have a clear notion to work from (the reversible vest), I can ask about something else in your posts which confuses me. I'm familiar with all the games you described and played the hell out of several of them myself in the 1980s: Rolemaster Space and fantasy, GURPS, and so on. But I don't understand what you're saying about what you like and don't like - your sentences seem to jump back and forth about that.

Rather than wade back through the phrasing, I'd like to know more about whether:

1) Do you want levels of any kind in the mechanics of your game? My tentative perception is "no," but I was confused about that as your descriptions of various games treated levels favorably, or so it seemed to me.

2) Do you want classes of any kind in the mechanics of your game? This is the interesting one. It seems to me as if you want a character's story role to be well-defined, and that's one of the functions of traditional character classes. If you don't mind a bit of time-travel, check out this old thread: The class issue. It's definitely not the same-old-bullshit sort of discussions about character classes that go on all the time.

3) Do you want skill lists of any kind in the mechanics of your game? My tentative perception is "yes."

It may seem to you as if I'm being a little dense, but in on-line interactions, it's useful to spell things out in the most boneheaded way. I'm not accusing you of being a poor writer or anything like that in the posts - this is all for my improved understanding, so consider me the bonehead and help me understand.

Best, Ron