Magic System: Needs a little polishing...

[LordKiwi]

I'm writing a game, Heretic, which [is/will be] a dark fantasy game where characters are mages on a dieing world. It's quite a bleak game where characters try to achieve something before their power ultimately consumes them.

Rules are to cover story pace, scene framing and magical conflict resolution. Mundane actions will use a sub-set of the magic rules. I'll just outline the rules needed for my query the there are three questions at the bottom.

It all centres around a 'Conflict Diagram', consisting of Boxes and Links. Boxes can have tokens in them and have special rules when activated (which remove tokens), Links are routes that tokens can move down to get to different boxes.

Sample Diagram (will be rearranged to look like a pentagram when on the character sheet, for now, use your imagination)...

Code Select Expand

    ->(Charge)->(Control)-
   /                      \
(Act)                      ->(Power)
   \                      /
    ------->(Deny)--------

Turn structure is as follows....
1. Narration -> each detail adds one token to the (Act) box. You can narrate activating the special effects of other boxes. This section resembles Wushu quite heavily (for those that know), apart from the special rules for activating boxes. For magic narration will be about manipulating forces, unleashing spells and describing there effects (I'm putting a whole chapter together to help with this).
2. Resolution -> Check to see if anyone has won (they have no Difficulty tokens left).
3. Move -> Move a set number of tokens around your diagram (always higher than the number you can narrate per turn).

Boxes do things like....
Deny - add to an opponent's difficulty
Control - stops magical backlash when using the Power and Charge box
Power - reduces your difficulty (Control is required otherwise you suffer a Backlash)
Charge - tokens on this box multiply, but you need enough Control to avoid a Backlash.

To activate a token you must roll under of over the statistic written on the box (there are 2 stats, both conflicted since for some boxes you roll under, other times, over), otherwise it's lost.

You have several resources to manipulate the conflict....
Traits: If a trait is relevant you can narrate it in to gain bonus tokens equal to it's rating, then exhaust the trait.
Fate: You get Fate points for loosing conflicts and you can spend them
Responsibilities: Things you care about, you can make them suffer to gain re-rolls.

Notes: There will be several types of conflict diagram, One magical one per player and a standard one for Mundane conflicts. They are all designed to represent the flow of magic as the character manipulates it (hence the pentagram for the one above) which I think will look good. This is just an outline, I have more details, so if you think they are needed before meaningful commentary, let me know and I'll post anything needed.

Now for the questions.
1. Are there any obvious problems with this and am I missing anything?
2. Do I need more types of Box? If so, any ideas?
3. Movement of tokens seems a little clunky at the moment, just tacked on the end of the round. Any ideas for how it could become integrated with the rest of the system?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[LordKiwi]

Blast, that Conflict Diagram didn't render properly in the code block and I don't seem to have an edit button. I should have tried a picture, oh well, textual description then. There are basically two routes that start with the (Act) box and end with the (Power) box, as follows...

(Act)->(Charge)->(Control)->(Power)
(Act)         ->(Deny)->         (Power)

[J. Scott Timmerman]

Greetings, LordKiwi.

So, if I understand correctly, tokens only move one direction along the arrows?  Then, from a mage's perspective, they have to build up a charge for a spell (which can keep growing), then control that charge with itself, and use some of that control to generate power, while still keeping enough control?

On the other side of your diagram, what do you see as an opponent?  Would any challenge be an opponent?  I mean, would Deny be used against inanimate opponents, too?

I could see how, with the right math, a system like this could produce a downward spiral for a character, ending in the mage's own undoing.  What are the rules for Backlash that mitigate this?  Could a potential Backlash effect simply use Responsibilities, requiring the mage to pay Responsibilities (no choice in the matter) for a Backlash?  That way, a spell goes wrong, and a character has to come up with some more power quick or die, and (s)he accidentally thinks about his/her lover, killing her/him. 

Looks like it has potential.  I like the metaphysics (which are either implied, or I am just guessing at) behind the mechanic.

-Jason Timmerman

[chris_moore]

Could we maybe get an example conflict?  I'm keeping my eyes on this thread...

-Chris

[LordKiwi]

So, if I understand correctly, tokens only move one direction along the arrows?  Then, from a mage's perspective, they have to build up a charge for a spell (which can keep growing), then control that charge with itself, and use some of that control to generate power, while still keeping enough control?

They only move one way, yes. I'm planning on different diagrams for different types of magic (3 atm), so they may have 2 way links, but for the moment it's all one way.

On the other side of your diagram, what do you see as an opponent?  Would any challenge be an opponent?  I mean, would Deny be used against inanimate opponents, too?

The opponent would have there own diagram that they use. A little more explanation is required I think. You have an Antagonist (basically the GM) and Protagonists. When you enter a conflict you choose if it is a Major or Minor conflict. This is matched with the current Escalation (a value from 1-4 that increases as the story progresses, exactly how is not important at the moment) and you get Difficulty Tokens. Once they are all gone you win (unless someone else wins first).

The Escalation and Minor/Major also set the Antagonist's potency int he Conflict and they should have there own diagram (choose one of 3 - Mundane, Magic or Inquisitor). Part of the Antagonist's diagram will be Risk and Time boxes. If they have too many tokens in Time you have run out of time and fail the conflict, if they have too many in Risk you take fallout. Other boxes will be present (like Act, Deny, Power etc).

Inanimate opposition is reflected by using these boxes.

Climbing a Cliff? The Antagonist will try and fill the Risk box to make you fall off.
Racing to a village to warn them of danger? The Antagonist will try and fill the Time box to make you late.
Of course they can throw something unexpected in your path, maybe you're racing through a field of razor sharp rocks... Time and Risk will be used. Harpies attack while you climb the cliff? They start using the boxes for mundane foes.

You could use Deny to reduce Risk and Time boxes, so you narrate how you use ropes to climb the cliff, making it safer or how you buy your self more time.

I could see how, with the right math, a system like this could produce a downward spiral for a character, ending in the mage's own undoing.  What are the rules for Backlash that mitigate this?  Could a potential Backlash effect simply use Responsibilities, requiring the mage to pay Responsibilities (no choice in the matter) for a Backlash?  That way, a spell goes wrong, and a character has to come up with some more power quick or die, and (s)he accidentally thinks about his/her lover, killing her/him.

I'm going to have to balance the maths well, to produce the slow spiral (it can't be too quick).

It all comes from the three types of backlash. Basically it works on a 3-fold return rule. Loose control of 1 token of magic and 3 tokens of bad stuff happens, in 3 categories.
1. Disruption: Add tokens to your difficulty equal to the difference between your power and control.
2. Damage: Take a Fallout. Also, one of your statistics may move towards an extreme value (+/- 1 as appropriate) if the backlash is bad enough. This is bad because if a statistic reaches 1 or 12 it's game over (in one of 4 nasty ways).
3. Chaos: One responsibility suffers. If it's a strong enough backlash the suffering level will increase.

This creates a downward spiral because... as you get more powerful your potential backlashers become greater so you are more likely to loose Statistics. Also every time a responsibility is destroyed (which is the highest form of suffering, think aspects in 'With Great Power...', if you've read it) you gain 1 weariness point, which makes re-balancing your statistics harder. Therefore as life goes on you become more powerful (from winning conflicts) and more weary (from loosing important things) and you loose Statistics easier and have a harder time restoring them.

Looks like it has potential.  I like the metaphysics (which are either implied, or I am just guessing at) behind the mechanic.

That's the effect I'm hoping for, so you can see the metaphysics at work on your sheet. Different mages will use different sources of power and channel it differently, so there diagrams will reflect this.

John Keyworth,
(Should have read the post about preferring real names before I signed up)

[LordKiwi]

Could we maybe get an example conflict?  I'm keeping my eyes on this thread...

Glad to see you find it interesting. As for a sample conflict, lets have a single protagonist (called Chris playing Felix Kohl) and the antagonist (called John). Felix Kohl has found an army of demons swarming towards a Village he was protecting and they have just noticed him. His mage has a limit of 6 actions per turn and has the traits Glyphs and Words of Power at rank 1.

Chris: I want to teleport back to town before the demons get to me.
John: Ok, conflict time, you want a major or minor conflict?
Chris: Minor please.
John: OK [looks up difficulty on a chart, lets say it's 2], here are 2 difficulty tokens, you need to get rid of them to complete your spell before the demons arrive, I'll take a Mundane Conflict Diagram and I have [looks it up, based on escalation and conflict type] 4 actions per turn. Lets start Narration.
Chris: Felix quickly draws a circle around himself [1 token goes on the Act box], planting his staff into the ground [1 action] causing it to flash into life [1 token]. He starts chanting 'Words of Power' [1 action, plus a bonus 1 from Words of Power which is now exhausted] and uses the base of his staff to start scribing 'Glyphs' around the circle [1 action, +1 from Glyphs which is exhausted]. He thinks to himself "This better work before those demons get here or I'll be overwhelmed" [1 action, taking the total in the Act box to 8].
John: Ok, that's your 6 actions done. You see a commander bark some orders at his underlings [1 Action] and a group of them move towards you [1 Action]. A couple of demons have wings and soon overtake the rest of the group [1 Action] trying to get to you in time to disrupt your circle [1 Action].
John: That's Narration, Resolution... nothing has happened to the tokens so no one has won, so it's movement.
[John moves 3 tokens to Time and 1 to Deny; Chris, who has 12 moves available, moves 3 tokens onto power (taking up 6 moves) and 2 tokens onto Control (4 more moves), 1 token onto Charge and 1 onto Deny (he has 1 left on Act)]
John: Narration again, The clock is ticking for Felix as the winged demons barrel down at him. [1 Action; takes the three tokens from the Time box and rolls to activate them getting 2 successes, so one is discarded and the other two equal the difficulty so are enough to end the conflict in the resolution phase]....
Chris: ...but as they arrive a flash of light from the circle incinerates them [1 Action, also activates the Token on the Deny box, rolling a success and reducing the number of Time tokens to 1, so he won't loose this resolution phase!]. Speaking the true names of the demons [1 Action] the front rank are paralysed by his voice [1 Action] as he raises his staff, activating the power of the circle [1 Action, activates his Power tokens. Rolls all 3 as successes. He then has to activate his Control tokens to avoid backlash, which are also both successful, but that isn't as many as the successful power tokens so he takes 1 token worth of backlash. The Difficulty increases by 1, he suffers fallout and his responsibility suffering increases. 3 Power tokens still reduce the difficulty to 0, so he can still win in the resolution phase.]
John: A lance of energy springs from one of the demons [1 Action, activates his token in the Deny box but fails] but fails to disrupt the circle [1 Action]. You have 2 actions left Chris but I can't stop you winning so we may as well resolve.
Chris: Excellent. Felix completes the spell, waves goodbye to the horde and disappears in a final flash of light, reappearing in the Village.
[Fallout is now calculated but I won't include that here].

I didn't include how the rolls are calculated and some of the rules where vague because they aren't finished, but I hope it gives an idea of how the conflicts can go. That's how they run in my mind, I only hope I can transfer it to paper well enough.

John,