New Roleplaying Game: Kissanil

[Conteur]

I've written back for 30 minutes and it said that I was late so it discarded everything...):
I must begin again and will make it short now.
My site is in three language (but Deutsch isn't finished, I need help to make it)
The theme is about the ambitions and dilemas of people. Like in Battlestar Galactica. As an example, would you sacrifice and drain the sun's energy to save your lover?
My player's characters are adventurers or political activists. They hate to fight and my rules are enabling you to understand the feeling of another. Like Sense Motive in D20. It's the most useful roll for my intrigue and political games. Some players prefer Dungeon crawling and its also possible.
Generally, I'm the Conteur (Storyteller) but I played it sometimes. My players have the rulebook and we sometimes dicuss rules to change them. They can also choose what they want their characters to do in the future and I make the story fit. They like to seek world-shattering answers about the creation of the world, he creation of the Dh'Flnds or the destruction of the sun...
I'm working about a little chunk to remake my site. I must stop seeing like Cthulhu and more like a Kissanil's citizen...
As for the r-map, it's really simple to create one. It could be interresting but as every r-map, it's difficult to create one with more than 10 characters... I will work on it.
As for my dream, I know that MMO is killing tabletop RPG but I keep dreaming. I don't want a complete PDF though. I really want a book. Anyway, everyone with uTorrent will take it for free but I will have the satisfaction of showing it to my child.
Thanks again, I hope I answered to all your questions. My post was way longer before I got throwed out ):

[xenopulse]

I've got more to say about your game later, but just for now: once you've got a PDF, thanks to Print on Demand like Lulu.com, you've got a printed book, if you want it. With no up-front print costs; you just upload your file, and every time someone orders the game, they print a book just for them. Your profit margin is less than with traditional printing, but if you mostly care about getting the book out, that shouldn't be an issue.

And I wouldn't be so pessimistic about PDF sales. Our game is available both in print and PDF, and both selling decently. You can see the sales data in this thread. We just signed up on Monday on rpgnow.com, as an added venue, and sold a PDF per day there so far.

[pells]

Patrick, a couple of advices ... if you allow me.

I believe you need to think of your project in term of product. So, I would recommend you to sit back and think about it.

The theme is about the ambitions and dilemas of people. Like in Battlestar Galactica. As an example, would you sacrifice and drain the sun's energy to save your lover?

Okay for the theme, but ... How does the fluff part (setting/situations) helps promote this theme ? How does the the crunch part (mechanic) helps promote this theme ?

My player's characters are adventurers or political activists. They hate to fight and my rules are enabling you to understand the feeling of another. Like Sense Motive in D20. It's the most useful roll for my intrigue and political games. Some players prefer Dungeon crawling and its also possible.

A question : your project is it about your group of players (some kind of chronicles) or is it more generic (meant to be used by others) ? Because reporting your games on a site is one thing. Building a product that can be used by others is another. And I would recommend also to be careful about systems. Maybe some people might want to do dungeon crawling in your world, but maybe then your systems might not be the right pick to do so ...

As for my dream, I know that MMO is killing tabletop RPG but I keep dreaming. I don't want a complete PDF though. I really want a book. Anyway, everyone with uTorrent will take it for free but I will have the satisfaction of showing it to my child.

I think you are making a terrible mistake about the market of rpg ... and anyway, you seem to don't have a strong publishing goal. So, who cares if your work is being downloaded

Thanks again, I hope I answered to all your questions.

Well, I'd say not really ... What is your product exactly ? How do I make use of it ? How is the data organized ? What about any kind of plot ? Is there any ? If so, how is it structured ? Why would I use your material over what is already published ? Or even what I can create ?

[Conteur]

The Kissan (power) can be used by everyone. So it means that you can use a Kissan named Dominate to force someone to act the way you want. Some Species, like the Lëfan, have it at birth. The dilemas become evident when you are opposed to a friend doing something you consider stupid (like many do when they are in love...). Powerful characters can also try to make someone, like the sun, die. The drawback is horrible...
If the Storyteller don't want to use dilemas inhis style of play, he could try but I really think in a world of so powerful magic, it will happen one day...
My project is about a game anyone can play. My players just made a mess of my world (and continue to do so) and I greatly hope other people to contribute to that dynamic. My world is ever evolving (due in great part to that powerful magic I spoke of...). So no, I wont relate my games if it doesn't affect the world at large but when my game is released, I hope people share their adventures...

What about any kind of plot ? Is there any ? If so, how is it structured ? Why would I use your material over what is already published ? Or even what I can create ?

That is the hard part. Why do I play Dragonlance and Planescape, because I like it and I don't have the time to always create new materials for my player. Someone with all the time in the world and his own creativity will probably create his own world. The general plot is about the Dh'Flnds invading the world. Here are some more information on this.
https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/p0829664/MonDepotPublic/Kissanil/Hidden.html
As for my city, I finished a little brief explanation of it. It is the last strange city in my world so easier to imagine for people. I generally place new players there before they meet exotic locale.
https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/p0829664/MonDepotPublic/Kissanil/Meldranta.html
Thanks again for all your questions and thinking you make me do.

[pells]

If the Storyteller don't want to use dilemas inhis style of play, he could try but I really think in a world of so powerful magic, it will happen one day...

Then is providing stats for d20 even a good idea ?

My project is about a game anyone can play.

Are you sure ? Anyway, you are better off providing people with a good reason to play than a generic one !!!

My players just made a mess of my world (and continue to do so) and I greatly hope other people to contribute to that dynamic. My world is ever evolving (due in great part to that powerful magic I spoke of...). So no, I wont relate my games if it doesn't affect the world at large but when my game is released, I hope people share their adventures...

So, it's going to be a mess ... What tools are you providing to help the DM manages this mess ? Because, if you're selling me some kind of story (plots/situations) and that it becomes a mess at 10% into the story ... then you'd better have a way to prove me that I'll use all of it (or at least most).

That is the hard part. Why do I play Dragonlance and Planescape, because I like it and I don't have the time to always create new materials for my player.

You use dragonlance and planescape ? What informations are using from those books ? All of it or part of it ? What do you find useful ? Is your aim to replicate those kind of products or come with something different, more useful ?

[Conteur]

My D20 system of Kissanil is more powerful than standard D&D. Like all D20 product, I must adapt many things...The characters are much more powerful than standard D&D characters.

I can't provide a good reason to play my game to someone who don't like post-apocalyptic world without common things like humans and cats. I want to offer a product that could spark the imagination of some people. I also hope to have good pictures to show my vision of a different world. Anyone can play to an evolving world. Just look at Vampire. The only constant is that if you want your stories to affect the overall world, I will just have to know of what happened.
Anyway, every Storytellers change some of what they see in a product to adjust to their particular view. I want to give the basis for people who don't have 200 hours of free time to work on the next game.
I doesn't mean my world to be a mess. I mean that my player affected the very landscape of Kissanil, created and destroyed cities. As I said, I took inspiration from Escaflowne and Final Fantasy and every manga around here. I some cities or mountains never blew up, it would not be a manga world.
The tools I will offer will be a Forum (already here), to manage his mess if he want future products to adjust to his point of view. Some things are mostly constant, like the ThrynHaathok Empire, the cities, the maps (they don't blow up more than one time per 2 years, it's a momentous event with much repercussion!)
The general plot is not about to change...The Dh'Flnds just decided recently to be more aggressive and the mortals are better defended every day...
I also hope to create a product like Dragonlance and Planescape but much more defined. Some people just don't have time to create a city and put stats on everyone (I already did that in Kissanil). I also want the Storyteller to know EVERYTHING so that he could change what he don't like instead of staying in the dark like Changeling did...
Thanks again! With these thoughts, I must put myself in your shoes...

[David Berg]

Patrick,

You asked earlier for visual suggestions re: your site.  I am a web designer, and I can tell you that your options for the site's appearance are virtually limitless, but simple is less work and easier to maintain/update yourself.  So, some simple suggestions to help your site look better:

White on black hurts to read.  This is a major deterrent to casual readers spending significant time looking at this page.  You can create a page that looks very dark without actually having your text be on a black background -- for example, if you keep the top and sidebar black and have black text on some drab-colored background (e.g. gray tinged with green or brown).

As for the other text colors, I'd make the purple a little whiter (lighter and less saturated), and that green on Current Events should be ditched in favor of something relatively similar to the purple (a redder or bluer purple, maybe).

Organization is vital.  One thing at a time, man.  Think about what people are looking for.  Your Introduction page should start with the actual introduction.  Current Events, as currently constructed, is a minor footnote for people with personal interest in your project, and should be hidden away somewhere unobtrusive.  Your list of inspirations and thanks (which needs its own header) should likewise be marginalized -- a smaller font would be a start. 

Most importantly, though, there should be breaks between any sections that appear on the same page as each other.  Lines and boxes are your friends.

Connect the pictures to the text.  On the Species page, you have 21 Conscious Species listed.  And then you have 4 pictures jammed in with labels that make no obvious connection any of those 21 names.  Put the image next to the text that is relevant to it, and give the picture some room.  It's better to have a big break in the text for a picture than to have the text flush against the edge of a picture. 

Another option for your site, which current looks like very old-school text-based web design, is to forget about pictures entirely.  Some of the mediocre doodles up there right now probably do more harm than good.

Without knowing exactly what level of prettiness you aspire to eventually achieve, these starter comments are the best I can give.  If you just want to convey the information, I think you have a good start and my suggestions (particularly re: visual organization) might help.  If, on the other hand, you want to have a particularly professional look with a distinct identity, I think you'd need a total re-design.

-David

[Conteur]

Wow, I really love this Forum. You help me exaclt in the way I asked. I'm not a professional designer so it's very difficult to create a Site without any help. I do love pictures though, and I would never read a text without some pictures. That's also one of my point, I need good illustrator for all my species. Don't worry, I will pay. I just need to have all my Species drawn soon...
I will try to oraganize all this and show a better view but I already determined some things about my game that is not clearly evident and I was about to fall into a Fantasy Heartbreaker.
On the GNS scale, It's a Gamist game with task resolution. Much politics is involved but in a crescendo of difficulty. Characters become physically, socially and mentally stronger.
It may seems like a common game that doesn't create any thing new but I know some parts of it are original. It's also a methodical game, well defined, minutious to the extreme. People without time who want a clear, precise, strange world will probably like it.
(Maybe, my lack of organization show you that i'm not meticulous, but I mean to have all the stats and effect of every little bit of my world)
So, do you think a game so heavy could fascinate someone?

[pells]

Note : Patrick and I live in the city (Montréal) and are both native french speaker. We met for about two hours to discuss his project.

Well, Patick, I'm going to give you some real work. You've been working on your project for more than 10 years, almost alone, or always surrounded by the same persons. Now, you're getting out of your basement. Your site, because this is what is in question here, must reflect what your product (yes, your product) really is. What it can do, better than others. This is not easy to understand, even more to formulate.

I will try to oraganize all this and show a better view but I already determined some things about my game that is not clearly evident and I was about to fall into a Fantasy Heartbreaker.

Why is it not a fantasy heartbreaker ? And be careful, fantasy heartbreaker is used for systems. Your product has a lot, but a lot of fluff (content, setting ...). And from the discussion we had, it also looked abashed. You said yourself you will have hard decisions to make about your system. Anyway, an abashed fantasy heartbreaker could be sold. No problem there for me.
So, I strongly recommend you to present a power 19 for your system and post it here.
And, also, think of it. On your site you have a couple charts to present your system. Is it useful ? Not really. And it looks a mess. A power 19 would certainly be what you are looking for.

On the GNS scale, It's a Gamist game with task resolution. Much politics is involved but in a crescendo of difficulty. Characters become physically, socially and mentally stronger.

The power 19 would help here, but even better is an actual play post, where you describe an experience of play, what you enjoyed or not in it. And why. This would also help us understand the strong presence of the DM in the story telling.

It may seems like a common game that doesn't create any thing new but I know some parts of it are original. It's also a methodical game, well defined, minutious to the extreme. People without time who want a clear, precise, strange world will probably like it.

I could say this about Avalanche. Or about many other games. But why is yours ? This is what you need to tell us. You have a very long, very detailed setting, with a lot, but a lot of details. You want a world of details, with a hundred secondaries characters, all stats out ? Well, don't go for Avalanche !!!! This is your strength. And it tells us something. Methodical ? Not much.
And this is what your site should also reflect. Not twenty races, each with a paragraph, but three races, four pages long each. This is your product.
I also want you to present the notion of stakes in your setting and the way the DM can manage it.

So, do you think a game so heavy could fascinate someone?

I don't think we can answer this question. Beside a poll (which is not the purpose of the forge) you won't get anything. And a pole, here or anywhere else for that matter, would not be significant. Don't think about this. Think about your product.

[Conteur]

I've answered to the Power 19 and it focused my product very much. I've also made a game example of a little part from a game we loved. It will show you exactly what I mean by Manga style, dilemmas, powers usable at will and task resolution mixed with roleplaying (we consider social rolls the most important aspect of our game).

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/p0829664/MonDepotPublic/Kissanil/GameExample.html

About my charts presenting my system, I thought that I could begin with showing the Attributes and the basic rolls and then explain how to create a character. Right now, my site is a mess and I'm working on it (I remade the introduction page's text but the colors will need someone with a greater artistic sense than me!)

About methodical, oops! I want it to be methodical, that is my goal. I just dream of success...
Thank you again Sebastien, you're a great help!