[DitV] A matter of timing

[Daniel Davis]

This issue came up in the session of Dogs that I ran (for the first time) last night with a group of my friends. I'll give an example to illustrate our confusion.

Let's say that A and B have just been chatting about something. A raises with 12: "I'm right!"

Now, let's say that B can only Take the Blow with the dice she has. But she has a Trait that might enable her to Block or Dodge, and that's what she wants to do here. Let's say it's a quote: "I'm always right" 3d10.

B's narration will be dependent on how many dice she uses to See. If it's a Reversal of the Blow, she'll say something like, "I'm always right, and, furthermore [Raise]". If it's a Block or a Dodge, perhaps "I'm afraid you're mistaken about my being mistaken." If it's a Taking of the Blow, well, it doesn't seem to make too much sense to me. Maybe "Even though I'm always right, I'm wrong this time"? Like I said, I don't see how this should work.

But that's the thing: this Trait seems like it should be applicable. It certainly is with a Reversal or a Block. But, in this case, we don't know before we roll the dice for the Trait (and hence before we commit to the narration of the Trait's usage) how B will be able to See. Depending on how the dice fall, she might indeed be able to use the Trait plausibly, in a Reversal or Dodge; but, then again, she could roll a 1 and still be Forced to Take the Blow.

Does anyone see what I'm getting at here?

It seems to me like it might make more sense to say that only on your Raise can you introduce new Traits or Belongings.

But perhaps I'm just misreading this thing as a problem. If I am, I'd like to be enlightened.

[Moreno R.]

Hi Daniel!

I noticed something in your example. You didn't specify the stakes.

It could be important, because if A raises like this:...

Let's say that A and B have just been chatting about something. A raises with 12: "I'm right!"

...then the rightness of his/her argument can't be what is at stake (you can't make a raise "I win this conflict")

So, not only being right would not make A win the conflict, but it can even not be so much important to adress it for the fallout.

Another thing: "A" said in character "I'm always right" to the other character, or it's the players saying this about A? It's a different situation.

Some examples:
A says (in character) "I am right", B try to block saying "no, I AM RIGHT, as ALWAYS", but get lousy dice and has to get the blow. That doesn't mean that he isn't right this time, too. It does mean that maybe the onlookers didn't believe him, or that while he answered, "A" got close to the door to flee, or anything like that. The conflict isn't about who is right, and the fallout can be about anything.

A says (out of character) "hey, my guy is right" and push dice. Well, is not a valid raise, it can be ignored (people ignore whoever is right every day!)

Remember that it's the player that takes the blow that narrate what happen, too:   A: "You know I am right!", B: "No, I know that I am always right!"...<roll>... "damn! the noise from the street drown my voice, he doesn't even hear what I said!"

And what about the case when B is not right and he knows it? Well... another example...

A: "I am right", B: "I know that he is right this time, but people around me believe that I am always right, so they don't believe him"...

(but here we go in another area, the character concept: if the player really meant that "I am always right" as truth, it's his choice to play him that way. So, in this case, he can make the character be wrong for the first time, or he could simply say:
B: "I believe him, he is right. I can feel it. And I am always right", get the dice for being right, and take the blow...

[lumpley]

I always let the player roll the dice, and if they turn out to be crap, do their see over. They probably rolled in the middle of talking anyway. No big deal.

-Vincent

[Noclue]

That trait looks applicable any time she thinks she is right, regardless of whether she's right or not (actually if she isn't right, she isn't right about being right). A narration like "I am always right!" works fine as a raise or a see, a block or dodge." That narration doesn't have to change with the dice she's rolling. The dice don't have anything to do with how right she is, only how much impact her statement has in the conflict.

[Daniel Davis]

Thanks for the input. I'm thoroughly satisfied with Vincent's solution.

We had a great session, by the way. I should be posting an Actual Play sometime soon.