Scheduling for the '09 convention circuit

[Martians]

Hello everyone,
I've been lurking on these forums for quite some time now, working on and off on a game I've had in my mind for the past few years...But recently, I've found myself really focused and intent on finishing and publishing my work, so with a renewed passion and purpose I am leaping headlong into the Forge community...first off id like to thank ALL of you for answering so many questions Ive had and providing so much support without even knowing it, seemingly everything I've needed to know has been here answered or experienced in one way or another by so many of you...so onto my new question-

what are your suggestions for planning an exhibition schedule for my game next summer? Ive been looking into Gencon, Dragoncon and Origins of course but are there any other largish conventions? or better yet is there a comprehensive Convention schedual anyone can point me at? also as far as booth prices go, so far on the gencon indy site it looks like with early registration you can get a table on author avenue for 150$ a day...is that pretty standard? thank you guys so much and I am really excited about being a part of the independent gaming community...roleplaying has given me so much over the years and Im ready to contribute!!!

[Ron Edwards]

Hello, and welcome.

Easy thing first: at the top left of this webpage, just under the logo, you'll see a series of links that includes one called "Calendar." This is a user-driven announcement and scheduling feature, which means that it's as good and complete insofar as people put in the relevant information. There's no guarantee that it has everything.

I'm not sure if a full-range announcement site exists for role-playing conventions. If anyone knows of anything like it, or at least what the best stop-off-to-check sites are, please post.

Your own convention schedule is a little bit more problematic to discuss, because a lot of it depends on your own standards for success. I and some others here can make a pretty good case for certain strategies, and against others. However, if you're determined to do it your way, then it's your decision. Here are some things to take into account, maybe.

1. What's your current stage of development with your game?

2. What actual return and effects do you want to achieve at conventions?

3. What activities do you want to do? Run games as a sign-up thing, sell games at a booth, or what? (if I'm not mistaken, author avenue is for fiction authors, not game authors. I think you'll have to get an exhibitor booth in order to sell a game, whether your own booth or at something like the Ashcan Front or the Forge booth.)

Best, Ron

[Martians]

hi Ron and thanks for the quick and informative reply...

1. my game is nearing what i would call the compositionary (is that a word) phase...ive got most of the background story and research done, the system is in the works and character creation is nearing completion...i need to work on getting some art together and then laying the book out in a publishing format program (havent chosen which) so i think maybe in 2 months ill be ready to go to the printers with it

2. id like to get my game into the hands of as many people as possible and get as many gamers exposed to it as i can, i plan on having a really intense and fun booth setup including costumes and props as well as myself and my assistant acting in-character...ultimately id like to use conventions to create a "buzz"

3.  Id like to sell my book, and answer questions about setting and system as well as have a ton of information available and have a visual presentation with headphones and video...

also thanks for clearing up the booth situation i guess that although i see myself as an author, as ive been doing so much writing lately, thats not the area i should be looking at for distributing my game...heck if my rules system doesnt work out maybe thats something i could look into (just kidding)

thanks again to Ron and anyone who even took the time to read this post!
-brandon

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Brandon,

I'll go through your points one by one, but I'm actually responding in a more general fashion. I'll make that point first: I think you may be focusing too much on your book, which when all is said and done is merely a presetntation method, and not enough on your game, which when all is said and done is what you're selling.

I acknowledge that I have seen absolutely nothing of your work, and not played your game, so this is obviously based on interpretation. However, although I may be wrong, I think that my interpretation is at least worth examining to see what fits, if anything. So with that in mind, on to the specific points.

1. my game is nearing what i would call the compositionary (is that a word) phase...ive got most of the background story and research done, the system is in the works and character creation is nearing completion...i need to work on getting some art together and then laying the book out in a publishing format program (havent chosen which) so i think maybe in 2 months ill be ready to go to the printers with it

If your system is "in the works," that means one thing: it's not finished. And if it's not finished, then the finished version is not yet playtested in the most critical sense - people playing it who are not you. I think that two months to print is not only unrealistic, but foolish, and this judgment is based on my survey of new RPGs from new companies that I do every year at GenCon. Most of them are shoved between two covers, in a rush, while barely in the beta stage of design.

I'd like to emphasize the distinction I just made. The book is not the activity. The book is packaging. The question is whether the game is any good, and if good, does its subject matter inspire people to try the game. You need real feedback about the game before you even begin to think about the book.

2. id like to get my game into the hands of as many people as possible and get as many gamers exposed to it as i can, i plan on having a really intense and fun booth setup including costumes and props as well as myself and my assistant acting in-character...ultimately id like to use conventions to create a "buzz"

What we've learned over the last ten years is that conventions are best utilized for a second stage of generating buzz. The first stage is not convention-based at all, but rather internet-based and community-based, driven by your website and your participation at places like Story Games, RPG.net, the Forge, and similar.

This flies in the face of conventional wisdom about Origins in particular, which is reflected in its name. The conventional wisdom states "introduce game at Origins, generate demand among gamers and get pre-orders from distributors and retailers," then "make a big splash at Gencon to satisfy both customer demand and retailer investment." This is, bluntly, ass - hairy unattractive ass, at that. It has worked for no one. It is a beautiful idea that has been smacked badly by reality multiple times.

If you'd like to get your game into the hands of as many people as possible, then the immediate solution is to do so through website materials, whether free, for sale, or both. Conventions can be a great source of sales and revenue, but ultimately, the real distribution and real money comes from ongoing on-line sales.

I'd like to extend that concept by suggesting that you can break up "release" into stages, abandoning the notion that you finish everything in private first, then release. Nothing stops you from releasing an introductory or playtest version through Lulu, for instance, and using responses to that for finalizing the eventual book's contents. As it turns out, this is an excellent way to build a customer base too.

3.  Id like to sell my book, and answer questions about setting and system as well as have a ton of information available and have a visual presentation with headphones and video...

All that's fine, but what I'm seeing is that you'll be showing up at your first convention with an untested, unknown product that cost you plenty of money up-front to print; that you'll be paying for a booth, as well as AV equipment which is both expensive in its own right and requires mega-fees to the convention to energize; and that you expect a ton of people who will be interested enough to engage with you, despite having no knowledge about the game or you to start. You cannot simply go in hoping that people somehow become interested and that that will drive sales.

In my experience and given my observations over the years, that results in you and whoever you bring sitting forlornly in your booth for four days, occasionally being so desperate as to beg someone who walks by to stop and chat even for a moment. I have seen people in that situation sell about five copies of their game - at the biggest game convention in the western hemisphere, in a hall full of people who are inclined to buy games. Your outlay sounds like it will top $10,000 easily. Do you really want to see that become pure and simple debt and wasted time?

The Forge, and the sites I previously mentioned, are full of publishers who have benefited greatly by abandoning the conventional wisdom, which is a holdover from the early 1980s at the latest and too oriented toward retail. Once you put that aside, many options exist; there isn't any single correct way, but a wide constellation of options that you can customize to your own needs.

Let me know if you'd like to pursue that topic here.

Best, Ron

[Luke]

Ron, Brandon,
Please forgive the "me, too" post, but these three paragraphs are some of the best, clearest advice I've seen about starting up a game publishing effort I've seen in years. I present publishing seminars at Origins and Gen Con with my partner Jared Sorensen. We try to promote exactly the same message!

Start with the basics and work your way up from there. Don't worry about making a big splash. If you have a good game and a small, energetic presence at cons, you'll make your mark.

-L

All that's fine, but what I'm seeing is that you'll be showing up at your first convention with an untested, unknown product that cost you plenty of money up-front to print; that you'll be paying for a booth, as well as AV equipment which is both expensive in its own right and requires mega-fees to the convention to energize; and that you expect a ton of people who will be interested enough to engage with you, despite having no knowledge about the game or you to start. You cannot simply go in hoping that people somehow become interested and that that will drive sales.

In my experience and given my observations over the years, that results in you and whoever you bring sitting forlornly in your booth for four days, occasionally being so desperate as to beg someone who walks by to stop and chat even for a moment. I have seen people in that situation sell about five copies of their game - at the biggest game convention in the western hemisphere, in a hall full of people who are inclined to buy games. Your outlay sounds like it will top $10,000 easily. Do you really want to see that become pure and simple debt and wasted time?

The Forge, and the sites I previously mentioned, are full of publishers who have benefited greatly by abandoning the conventional wisdom, which is a holdover from the early 1980s at the latest and too oriented toward retail. Once you put that aside, many options exist; there isn't any single correct way, but a wide constellation of options that you can customize to your own needs.

[Martians]

ron, abzu,
thank you both SO MUCH i have put so much thought into my game and have missed so very many of these points...wasted energy thankfully though and not so much wasted money!

Hi Brandon,

I'll go through your points one by one, but I'm actually responding in a more general fashion. I'll make that point first: I think you may be focusing too much on your book, which when all is said and done is merely a presetntation method, and not enough on your game, which when all is said and done is what you're selling.

ive been thinking so much lately about imagery and aesthetics that it has sort of dominated my train of thought...ive been thinking in the conventional sense of rpg "books" that i own and how badly i want to make a "book" of my own to have up there on the shelf, ive sort of started thinking of my game and my book as one as id like the actual appearance of the "book" to reinforce the immersive power of my "game" ill try to think more in separate terms from now on as i think it will help me to really figure out some priorities...

i feel like you are shedding some light on my archaic notions of game promotion and that is excellent, heck its why i started this line of questioning ive really got to buckle down and get my system rock solid, i am completely putting the cart in front of the horse here i really cant stress this enough...THANK YOU!

this is great! it really helps me to have this guidance...i have a bunch of drive behind this project and am totally comitted to it, thankfully with this forum's help i wont be driving in the wrong lane!

[Martians]

i found a list here on the steve jackson games site...pretty helpful-

http://www.sjgames.com/con/