Pride - just what am I doing, here?

[DWeird]

First time poster, long time reader... Given these boards first name policy: name's Daumantas, Dauma for short. Lithuanian, in case you wonder.

The order of the post will be as follows: first, a little background information on the project itself, so you people could tell me where I'm coming from (and possibly tell me of directions I could go in that aren't the one I'm taking now); second, a general description of the project as it currently sits in my head; third, the specific questions for you people that I have.

I'm not really looking for technical solutions to system problems at this point, but rather advice on whether the system that I'm trying to build is plausible one at all. I will probably delve into detailed details, but please disregard that - they're there more to show you how I think and what I'm trying to do than as ready-made mechanisms that need to be taken apart and tested. And don't worry - while I'm looking for rather general advice, the questions I'll be putting forward will be specific enough to give this thread a sense of direction.

Anyhoo...

One thing to know is that I'm a forum roleplayer, and this is forum-based game. Meaning that all rules are based on written and unwritten conventions, and that mathematical systems and visual aids (cards, shiny things, and such) are either downright impossible to implement, or are a hindrance rather than help. Learned most of this the hard way. XD

This project has a wee bit of history - it started out essentially as an attempt at collaborative world-building: i.e., different people developed different parts of a setting, a 'world', for later use in regular forum RPs. Soon, I noticed problems with the project - while most people did enjoy the prospect of building a world, what they did was write up humongously long, extremelly detailed descriptions of their own neck of the woods which no one but them and their close buddies read (and me, 'cause I was sort of a supervisor). It was world-building, of course, but it wasn't really collaborative world-building, as different segments never really interacted much. Also, the pieces of 'setting' so produced were never really used in any real roleplaying.

Anyway, given that people did seem to enjoy creating stuff, I tried to build in some incentives to a create a "shared" environment - people would get "points" for creating stuff with broad application - fauna, flora, terrain types, "special" regions and etc.; as well as a way to be "unique" - people could then use these "points" for bolstering up the power of their "nations", specific groups under their control. The hope was that the relations between these nations intensify on the basis of special traits purchased by this system (note: here, I was also trying to fix a problem inherent in forum RPGs - dealing with fluctuating activity/inactivity of members: more active players would get more power, and get more say in what happens in the world). This was also a time when I tried to create broad, all-encompassing mechanics to regulate every aspect of the "nations" deemed important. I failed to create anything that even remotely resembled a usable system (multiple times, actually), and squandered the members' interest in the project in the progress. Simply put, people treated any such system as an invasion to their right to write up their own, unique cultures. The "shared environment" bit actually worked, and some people accumulated many points they had little idea how to use...

And that's enough of history.

What I want to do, what I wanted to do, was to create a sort of dynamic environment, where things would change, wars would happen, alliances and back-stabbings would be plentiful. I also want a sense of uniqueness to be present - that, even as every players' group changes, they remain in some important ways (ways that matter, not just colourful addons) different from all the others. So, I figure, system-wise, what I need is a way of squaring politics with flexible trait generation.

Also, even if not belonging to the "core" concerns, I want the world so created to also be unique in some way - so that the groups, races, and yadda yadda are not just recoloured versions of ones in popular movies or novels.

Finally, I need to make all of this work in a sufficiently decentralized manner.

And nowww... What I have developed so far:


The idea is to have people define their culture (essentially, their ethics) in a number of specific words, put them on a small-ish piece of land, and give them some basic "knowledge items" ("technology" in the 4X sense, I guess) of their pick to begin with. I think I'd present them with "problems" (water, food, security?) any small settlement would have to face, and let them find their own solutions.

Later on, the players can either get completely new "knowledge items", or combine the ones they already have, both for some cost (turn or whatever). Combinations of what one already haves are always cheaper than new stuff, and even more so if an essential cultural trait is also involved. How long it takes to "invent" a practise is based on its complexity - I'm thinking people could combine five or six different items.

Example: Wrath (culture) + Priests + Music + Spears = War Chants, or Initiation Rites, or something like that.

I'm thinking also that other players should be able to play the role of "circumstances" in the making of these "knowledge items" (or, in some cases, just "items"). I'm not sure exactly how that would work, but right now I'm imagining something like along the lines of Post1 By Player1 - description of what items are in use, and where it's all going -> Post2 By Player2 - [BUT!] some things happen with these items, for instance, to use the example above, some of the people in the ritual are worked into a crazy frenzy and kill some of their own -> Post3 by Player1 - [AND] that's okay, they were weak to begin with, and their blood will only strengthten us -> Post4 by Player2 (or Player3, or PlayerN - I see problems here...) [BUT!] one of the ones killed was a priest -> Post5 by Player1 - [AND] that's okay - we will use the skin of this fallen priest to create drums for use in these rituals later on -> and so on, for as many posts as the "making" of the thing takes.

There should probably be a set amount of 'stuff' that can possibly happen throughout the period of creating a new item (and systematic some incentive for outside players to involve the "culture" aspect into it).

And sadly, system-wise, that bit is it. I believe that, trait generation-wise, this stuff is going to work beautifully, if developed properly. But what about all the politicking and interaction between such groups? I've not even the faintest idea where to start on that!

I do have an idea for a setting for this thing, which will hopefully make what I'm trying to create here clearer (and will also explain the name of the game :D).

The world the game takes place in is a planet half of which was smashed into small pieces of debris by a sun sent into it by vengeful deities.

The deities are vengeful because of the living creature's Pride - a sin that makes them see the greatest of the creatures' imperfections as virtues, and one that made the creatures eventually challenge the deities themselves.

Is this Pride misplaced? The creatures were once powerful - but no longer. Still, even after the virtual destruction of their world, they're still alive, ecking out an existance on the various rocks, created by the tremendous explosion, now floating about.

If the gods tried to destroy them, they failed. So what if they were really afraid of the might of the creatures, what if it was simply an attempt to stop them before they became like gods themselves? They would rebuild, and they would hold onto their strengths.


Right now, I'm thinking of basing the whole initial 'culture/ethics' system on the 7 mortal sins, construed as virtues. Well, actually, 6, seeing how pride (the ability to see one's flaws as flaws) is universal. I'm fairly sure these 6 are insufficient, and not even sure if I should use them at all (what cool stuff can you create in conjunction with envy?). Still, I'd like to use some 'outside' moral classification system, as that removes me as the "true" interpreter and allows people to put some twists and turns in, while remaining fairly comprehensible in one glance (i.e., you don't have to read 12 pages on a culture to understand what's it about).

So I guess this is about it...

I feel like this thing that I'm making has a very real awesome factor, but I've been screwing with this sort of stuff for long enough to know that seeming awesome is something that's entirely different from being workable.

So wise ones, do you think it is? Or at least could be? If so, how? Any answers you can give me will be muchly appreciated (unless they're answers only in the nominal sense, o' course).

[jag]

What I want to do, what I wanted to do, was to create a sort of dynamic environment, where things would change, wars would happen, alliances and back-stabbings would be plentiful. I also want a sense of uniqueness to be present - that, even as every players' group changes, they remain in some important ways (ways that matter, not just colourful addons) different from all the others. So, I figure, system-wise, what I need is a way of squaring politics with flexible trait generation.
...
I'm thinking also that other players should be able to play the role of "circumstances" in the making of these "knowledge items" (or, in some cases, just "items"). I'm not sure exactly how that would work, but right now I'm imagining something like along the lines of Post1 By Player1 - description of what items are in use, and where it's all going -> Post2 By Player2 - [BUT!] some things happen with these items, for instance, to use the example above, some of the people in the ritual are worked into a crazy frenzy and kill some of their own -> Post3 by Player1 - [AND] that's okay, they were weak to begin with, and their blood will only strengthten us -> Post4 by Player2 (or Player3, or PlayerN - I see problems here...) [BUT!] one of the ones killed was a priest -> Post5 by Player1 - [AND] that's okay - we will use the skin of this fallen priest to create drums for use in these rituals later on -> and so on, for as many posts as the "making" of the thing takes.

The thing that comes to mind when i read this is Universalis.  Not that it would do what you want, but that it might be a good inspiration for you.  They have rules for using currency (Coins) for setting basic facts, and for adding facts to things, and resolving conflicts that arise from this process.  In your case, you could get a certain number of coins to do your initial setup of your culture.  Thereafter, you might be given a certain number of coins, based on how much you are doing what the game wants to encourage -- which seems to be to make unique interacting cultures.  One could then use these coins to influence other cultures (as in your Wrath/Priest/etc example), and how many coins you get later is affected by how 'good' these influences are.

This way you have a currency that allows you to add interesting facts, but it automatically limits how much you can do in this regard.  And by giving coins for making the things you do interesting, unique, and interactive, you encourage people to build the sort of dynamic environment you're looking for.

In any case, it's worth taking a look at how someone(s) else solved a similar problem.
James