Determining difficulty of actions

[wild_card2007]

A quick intro: I'm going for a hybrid game system in which the actual resolution and reward mechanics are fairly crunchy/gamist but a lot of "what happens" can be narrative, with players and GM sharing director stance. It's about heroes, who in order to succeed must Step On Up (take risks) to achieve Quests that involve their Passions.

The resolution mechanic is a dice pool vs. target number indicating difficulty. Rewards are doled out based partially on how well the character did and how difficult the action was. Obviously, the target number (TN) is a crucial element of the system since it is linked to the character's reward: the questions are who sets it, and how is it set?

My thought is to give the players and GM a tool (rule, resource) to change the TN. The main intent is for players to be required to use this tool as a means of Stepping Up: to increase the level of difficulty so their character is rewarded. But I also want to give the GM some power. So (I think) there also needs to be some tension between players and GM in terms of how they control setting the TN.

My current answer is a resource pool: players have a pool of points (that replenishes in some hand-waving fashion) to increase/decrease the TN of an action. Points they spend go to the GM's pool. When the GM spends points, they go away. So, both players and GM can affect difficulty, but the idea is players need to manage their pool and so does the GM.

So, two questions: first, what good or bad things do you see with this mechanic given my (primary) goal of requiring the players to Step On Up to increase difficult and (secondary) goal of giving the GM some influence over difficulty? And second, what other ways have you seen or played where players/GM set the difficulty (TN) of actions other than the classic GM fiat "Well it's a well-made door, so that makes it a difficulty 15"?

Thanks,
Thomas

[wild_card2007]

So... does this question make no sense? Am I being obviously stupid and don't know it? I'm rather stuck on this right now and would appreciate some sort of response.

Thomas

[Arturo G.]

Hi, Thomas!

I also think that if you want the players and GM to spend resources in order to modify the TN, it should be known to them. Thus, nobody can really take a subjective decision without the others refrain.

Thus, I would say you may devise a negotiation mechanic on itself to arrive at a group consensus, or you may try a small collection of TNs introduced by the mechanics themselves. Not by the subjective evaluation of the fiction by anyone. I mean, making the TN depend on a scene structure, the application of some other rules by the players, etc.

[wild_card2007]

Hi Arturo, thanks for the reply.

I didn't say so, but I do intend the TN to be known by all, and any modification publicly stated, e.g. "Okay, I'm using a difficulty point... the TN is now 8 instead of 6".

Care to elaborate on the idea of making the TN depend on scene structure, or how other rules could change the TN? I really haven't done anything in terms of how scenes will be set up, executed, and torn down yet -- so I'm not even sure what "scene structure" means.

Thomas

[Vulpinoid]

Here's the way I've addressed the issue...

All difficulties default to a standard value that increases as the game progresses (I should warn that this game was designed with narrative issues in mind). The GM doesn't set the difficulty, but basically as the players get closer to their goal things get harder.

All players get four tokens, two positive and two negative. They may throw these tokens into any conflict to make it easier or harder for the active character (they may not use these token on themselves). If they use a positive token, the target number would decrease by 1; if they use a negative token it would increase by 1.

Once the task has been resolved, anyone who threw in a token draws a random token to replace it. In this way, a player could gradually build up a hand filled with negative tokens if they keep giving positive tokens to people.

The catch, and the strategic angle in the game play is that at the climax of the session, a player has to apply any tokens in their hands onto their own actions.

It keeps people careful in when they apply benefits or penalties to their team-mates.

In addition to this, whenever someone throws in a token, it's suggested that they add something into the scene to reflect why something is easier, or harder.

Player 1: My character wants to climb the wall...
Player 2 (adds a positive token): Did your character notice that resting on the wall is a ladder?
Player 3 (adds a negative token, countering the positive): It's a shame that the ladder was made for halflings and won't support your weight.

etc...

It's worked really well in the games where I've used it, and it gives the players more of feel that they are shaping the story rather than having GM fiat define the results.

V

[Arturo G.]

Michael's example is very good. As the games progresses the difficult numbers are increasing by rules.

With scene structure I meant that you can do something similar on each scene. Modifying the TN on small character achievements, when arriving at the scene climax, or any similar trick. Other options may be to start each scene with the same TN and consistently increase/decrease it due to the application of rules associated to the actions of the player characters. You can do it in general, per character or whatever.
Also not guided by the actions of player characters, but by direct player decisions, which may have other kind of impact in the fiction, like the tokens in the Michael's example.

:: Arturo

[wild_card2007]

Michael, I like that mechanic... you've both given me some ideas. Now (as usual) the trick is to noodle it around until I get something that fits. Thanks.

Thomas