OMNI: Help with "Changing the World"

[whoknowswhynot]

Mayfair's game "Underground" has an interesting aspect I was considering using for OMNI.  Each country, City, State, etc. has a set of parameters such as "Take home pay", "Safety", "Goverment Corruption" etc.  I was thinking that this would mesh well with OMNI to simulate the "Collective Consciousness" of the particular area.  Does anyone have any ideas related to this?  Are there any other games out there that have the same type of world stat that the characters can change during play?

[J. Scott Timmerman]

Howdy.

I can't tell exactly what you're going for based upon the other thread on OMNI.  There are a few games out there with something similar.  Here's a few specific ones, if you want to check them out:

In Exalted 2nd Edition, there are rules for treating a group of people of any size as a single unit for purposes of social conflict, as well as a separate set of rules for working with the assets and resources of states over long periods of time.  In the world-building section of D&D 3.5 DMG there are also ways of defining community size and authority.

But I'm looking forward to checking out the Dresden Files RPG.  So far as I understand from playtester comments via podcast, it uses Aspects for just about any trait a city or area could have.  They work just like character Aspects in Spirit of the Century.  SotC encouraged using them for terrain effects, but DFRPG tries to encapsulate the theme of an entire campaign in a metro area (so far as I understand).

By "Collective Consciousness", are you referring to just a trait that simulates the general level of EGO that NPCs have in a given area?  Or are you going for something with more detail, like defining how the Collective Consciousness expresses itself in different places?  Are the players going to be able to affect these traits at all?

Or to ask that last question more broadly:  What do the characters do?  Answering this question (part of the Big 3, IIRC) should inform more precisely what traits they'll actually need to interact with, and how you'd like them defined for purposes of mechanics.

-Jason

[Vulpinoid]

Cadwallon, by Rackham, has a similar idea...areas are given an attitude that describes the feeling of the location. These attitudes match the attributes of the characters, so an area that has a lot of fights in it will naturally attract fighty-type characters and have a fight dominated attitude. Similar for social areas, magical areas etc.

Similarly, the collective belief of people in an area will make certain types of magic easier or harder to cast. A whole heap of people regularly praying to the forces of light will make dark invocations hard to cast in that area.

I tried to do something similar with the Eighth Sea, having different ports across the world flavoured by the types of actions that might be easier or harder, then applying a bunch of props that are typically associated with that area. Haiti might have Voodoo as a prop, which is then easier for a player to incorporate into a game. Alexandria on the coast of Egypt might have sand, or ancient scrolls of knowledge.

These can be changed during play by making other ideas more prominent in the storyline, or simply changing the world (which isn't too hard in a game about time-travelling pirates).

V

[whoknowswhynot]

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions!  I like the idea about characters being drawn to particular areas.  I definitely want all places to have an ego level.  How this would interfere with the characters needs to be determined, but as far as being drawn to same ego locations, that is definite.  This fits in with the subject of ley lines which fits in with secret societies and conspiracies, the occult etc.  All my favorite subjects.  Just need to get these things fleshed out.

By "Collective Consciousness", are you referring to just a trait that simulates the general level of EGO that NPCs have in a given area?  Or are you going for something with more detail, like defining how the Collective Consciousness expresses itself in different places?

I was thinking about the whole parameter thing when I posted this, but I think that just ego is enough.  The whole system is supposed to by very simple.  The subject matter is deep enough, I guess I need to avoid having too much detail in anything.

Or to ask that last question more broadly:  What do the characters do?  Answering this question (part of the Big 3, IIRC) should inform more precisely what traits they'll actually need to interact with, and how you'd like them defined for purposes of mechanics.

Good question!  I intend for OMNI (I think I need to change the name AGAIN!) to be an rpg that allows characters to be whatever, with no emphasis on "role" or "roll" playing.  The reason is that I intend the system to be simple so as to not take away from gameplay and allow for the narrator, GM, DM, whatever, to fill in the blanks and make the story believable.  The whole changing the world thing is the ultimate goal, but not every character is going to want to do that all the time.  Certainly "real life" people don't do so.  By world changing, I mean peaceful resistance, making choices out of love and not fear etc.  If enough people do this, then the location's ego will lower and therefore the ego of the whole planet will eventually drop too making the world a better place.  At least this is my idea.  Peace & Love, Man!

I tried having traits, but there are too many to count and everyone has a different name for the same ones so I decided against using a list.  Instead, (and the same goes for characters too) I decided to let the players have at it and be creative.  There are rules for determining the ego level based on the level of and number of "traits" listed.  The same could be true for locations such as ancient battleground, or torture chamber, or even a church (though debatable +/-...).  Any suggestions?

[J. Scott Timmerman]

The reason is that I intend the system to be simple so as to not take away from gameplay and allow for the narrator, GM, DM, whatever, to fill in the blanks and make the story believable.

Sometimes details can make things simple.  Even simply providing a short list of questions, or things that a GM should have nailed down before play, can make play go more smoothly.  If you want the GM to fill in the blanks, it helps to outline what the blanks are.

By world changing, I mean peaceful resistance, making choices out of love and not fear etc.

Here in this quote, I see a more specific "The characters will be doing THIS."  That means every Situation that the characters encounter should be built around THIS.  By Situation, I'm talking about the overall, in-fiction position that the characters are forced into by the world around them, the context in which they make decisions, and their views on the consequences of those decisions. 

The question needn't necessarily always be "Do they make the choice out of love or not?" but also "Does any good really come of it?" or "Would good come from compromising their morals of peaceful resistance - and even then does that mean that they should compromise?" ... I'm sure you can think of other/better examples appropriate to your game.

And like you said, you don't always have to be drowning in heavy decisions involving the salvation or fall of society.  But if that is what your game is about, situations should be built around them.  The inter-character relationships and normal day-to-day struggles should build up to it, and remind them of it. 

There are rules for determining the ego level based on the level of and number of "traits" listed.  The same could be true for locations such as ancient battleground, or torture chamber, or even a church (though debatable +/-...).  Any suggestions?

It sounds to me like you want the GM to have more control of what the actual EGO of a place is.  Maybe the church's bishop has used divisive rhetoric counter to the ideals of peace and love.  That church might be different from one with a forgiving, universally accepting priest.  Or maybe it depends more on the congregation. 

A "battleground" where peaceful protesters were slaughtered violently by tanks might also have a low or high EGO rating, depending upon your view of it.  Did peaceful resistance lose?  Or does the collective memory of the martyrs empower those who continue to live?  Imagine a torture chamber where the "torturers" were secretly on the side of the captives, and served as a base of resistance against a hateful dictator. 

Maybe if the characters can detect the place's EGO, it serves as a clue to the characters of whatever past the place may have had.  Perhaps invocation of that past - of the specific flavor of love here - can help them use a low EGO to their advantage.

(Disclaimer: everything statement in this post should be preceded by IMHO.  It's advice intended to help you think about what you want about this game, even if I've sometimes worded it as unarguable truth.)

-Jason

[Vulpinoid]

How about this as a notion...

From the character perspective in the game, characters reduce their EGO to become closer to the universal One-ness.

Why not apply the same notion to locations?

For every degree of environmental EGO, a negative defining fact about the place comes into being.

Instead of giving a place "safety" as a beneficial aspect. Give other places "Unsafe" as a negative aspect.

Places where there are 10 things wrong are not likely to be pleasant locations. But they have their own sense of individuality.

In this way the more enlightened a place is, the less wrong things there are.

Players can then perform quests, complete missions or generally react to the environment. The actions the players take might remove a specific negative aspect from a location (or their actions might add a new negative aspect if they fail, or succumb to their own hubris).

If you wanted to push this to the next degree, then you could have places like Shangri-La and El Dorado; locations which might have become so perfect that the whole place has transcended our realm. Like the boddhisatvas, they lure adventurers to greater things, and inspire the world with their tranquility. Conversely, you get the 1000 Hells of Chinese dogma, or the circles of Dante's Inferno when the EGO of a realm pushes beyond the normal levels found in the mortal plane.

Just an idea...

V   

[whoknowswhynot]

(Disclaimer: everything statement in this post should be preceded by IMHO.  It's advice intended to help you think about what you want about this game, even if I've sometimes worded it as unarguable truth.)

No worries!  I appreciate your advice.  That's why I'm here!

Sometimes details can make things simple.

This is definitely true, and I should say that I do have some guidelines for this in the workings, just not complete.  I like the idea of a checklist.  My biggest problem, though, is that I tend to open a can of worms whenever I attempt to go into detail.  As with characters, I had a list of "traits" that were like "stats" at one time, with the number of points for each one adding up basically to equal ego.  This was ok, but I could never define exactly what "traits" were needed, which ones were basically the same thing just different names, and some were simply too vague.  I could not seem to narrow down the "traits" to just a few.  I did not want characters to have a lot of rule stuff on the character sheet (you know, a million stats, movement, wounds, armor locations, skills, attributes, etc.), mostly just creative ideas for the character.  This is one reason that I have decided to keep it simple.  I also want a rulebook that can be easily memorized.

Maybe the church's bishop has used divisive rhetoric counter to the ideals of peace and love.  That church might be different from one with a forgiving, universally accepting priest.  Or maybe it depends more on the congregation.

That is exactly right!  These things you have listed are perfect examples.  I guess I did not really think about all the possiblities.  Just some guidelines are needed for sure!  I don't want the GM to be overworked.

And like you said, you don't always have to be drowning in heavy decisions involving the salvation or fall of society.  But if that is what your game is about, situations should be built around them.  The inter-character relationships and normal day-to-day struggles should build up to it, and remind them of it.  

True!  I want the GM to have the freedom to run a hack n' slash dungeon crawl where the characters are still bound by their ego and when they end the adventure with extra ego points for placing so much value on gold pieces and treasure, not valuing life or respecting life and reacting with the intent to kill dungeon dwelling creatures, they may learn not to act in such a way.  They leave the experience with traumatic memories, jealousy, greed, night sweats, etc.  These things do not always keep people from acting in such a way, but it sure does make for an intersting story.  It wont change the world, but it may change the character's perspective of the world.

If you wanted to push this to the next degree, then you could have places like Shangri-La and El Dorado; locations which might have become so perfect that the whole place has transcended our realm. Like the boddhisatvas, they lure adventurers to greater things, and inspire the world with their tranquility. Conversely, you get the 1000 Hells of Chinese dogma, or the circles of Dante's Inferno when the EGO of a realm pushes beyond the normal levels found in the mortal plane.

Just an idea...

A good one!  I like!  This meshes well with OMNI.  I have personally felt the 1000 hells before at my previous place of employment so I can definitely say that this is true!  Some places are very nice though.  I have came upon places in the park next to my old home that were very scary for some reason and then a clearing that was pretty peaceful.  My perspective has a lot to do with it, so this is where the reaction roll needs to come into play, as well as some fine role playing.

I had an idea for locations to have a spirit or deva associated with them as well.  Even possibly NPCs like sages, oracles, Masters, UFO sightings, "Great old ones" etc.

I guess that I simply need to flesh out the checklist or whatever for negative things to describe both characters AND locations.  This would make things...simpler...

Thank you for the replies!  Any more ideas are much appreciated.  I am rather eager to make this OMNI thing happen!