[Coraçao Selvagem] Missing Ability

[imago]

See Coraçao Selvagem's Power 19 (for details about the project and context for this thread).

I haven't been able to go back to this project, among other things, because my screen is not working and I have many notes there. Besides it's uncomfortable for me to write in a computer other than my own, specially because I have my music on it (this is a borrowed laptop).

But I digress.

Characters have five Attributes, each of them with five Abilities. Selvagem, being werewolves, have different Attributes than humans; Abilities are mostly the same, but there are distribution differences.

Here is the Selvagem list:

Instinct (the primal side of a werewolf. here is where I'm missing an Ability)

• Charisma
• Intimidation
• Perception
• Reflexes

Spirit (werewolves are more attuned to the spiritual and Strange Lands)

• Dream (psychic connection to Collective Unconscious)
• Harmony (sense through Bonds and reducing Tension on Clearings/Strange Lands)
• Navigation (the Ability used on Wanderings. does anyone have a better name?)
• Resolve
• Subterfuge (this is controlling the spirit in order to lie convincingly)

Precision

• Coordination
• Crafts
• Medical care
• Shooting
• Steal

Body

• Agility
• Brawl
• Stamina
• Strenght
• Wield

Lore

• Academics
• Occult
• Sciences
• Streetwise
• Survival

Humans have Soul instead of Spirit and Mind instead of Instinct.

Soul

• Awareness (empathy plus sixth sense)
• Charisma
• Intimidation
• Resolve
• Subterfuge

Mind

• Composure (PCs reactions are dictated by players. other Selvagem follow suit)
• Perception
• Reasoning (as Composure, thought-wise)
• Reflexes
• Void (silencing mind to external stimuli. this is how humans meditate and may reach what Selvagem just do by tapping the Dream. mostly for mystics)

So, what am I missing on Instinct*? Do these Attributes/Abilities lists make sense to you?

As usual, thanks in advance.

* I am aware that such a major Ability might and should have an equally major impact on what the game is about, but I can't think of anything specific.

[Abkajud]

Aside from neatness and maintaining a pattern, why do you need to have a fifth ability for the Instinct attribute? I've certainly pulled my hair out trying to get the names of things to line up perfectly, but, as you mentioned, if there isn't some game mechanic that feels like it's missing, you could very well be done already.

[Selene Tan]

Considering the characters are werewolves, and the category you're having problem with is supposed to reflect "the primal side of a werewolf," I'm surprised you don't have an ability that reflects it. Perhaps something like "Ferocity" or "Bestiality"?

[Wyldstorm]

Perhaps something like "Ferocity" or "Bestiality"?

I'd advise against "beastiality".
It has other meanings methinks.

I also think the instinct sublist has too "human" names, but i cant find any really good ones atm...

[imago]

Aside from neatness and maintaining a pattern, why do you need to have a fifth ability for the Instinct attribute? I've certainly pulled my hair out trying to get the names of things to line up perfectly, but, as you mentioned, if there isn't some game mechanic that feels like it's missing, you could very well be done already.

Yeah, but you'll see, there is. Your target number to roll is (by default) Attribute + Ability. You can raise Attributes; in that case, you get better rolls for 5 Abilities... except for Instinct, that has only 4. So, no, I actually need a fifth.

(besides, I like neat patterns)

[Abkajud]

Hey, Imago!

Wait, so your target number is the number of dice you have in your pool? I don't understand how that relates to having any particular number of Abilities. If it's important to you to keep the pattern, go for it! I'm just confused, that's all.

[imago]

Considering the characters are werewolves, and the category you're having problem with is supposed to reflect "the primal side of a werewolf," I'm surprised you don't have an ability that reflects it. Perhaps something like "Ferocity" or "Bestiality"?

Ferocity is something that affects mortals and also compels Selvagem to act instinctively (is that an actual English word?). This is addressed on two ways.

First, humans roll Composure and their number target is the Selvagem Tension (highest score if more than one). This means that NPC has to roll above the werewolf current Tension score and below Mind + Composure. Example, a cop talks to a Selvagem whose Tension is currently 3; the cop has Mind 3 and Composure 2. So the GM has to roll 2d6, pick beforehand the lowest or highest and roll equal or higher than 3 and equal or lower than 5 - 3, 4, 5 would be good rolls, 1, 2 and 6 wouldn't.

Second, whenever a Selvagem doesn't act impulsively, Tension goes up 1 point. This is reactive to a character's behavior, and that's how I like it.

Because of this, I left any kind of Ferocity traits out, at least I can think of a way to use that as an Ability (actually, may I ask what would Ferocity do that Intimidation or Brawl doesn't?)

[imago]

I also think the instinct sublist has too "human" names, but i cant find any really good ones atm...

Even though the names are different, the fact that they're under an inhuman, werewolf-only Attribute is alien enough to me. Also, since humans have some of the same Abilities, I needed to keep the names, because the effect is similar (Color may vary).

[imago]

Hey, Imago!

Wait, so your target number is the number of dice you have in your pool? I don't understand how that relates to having any particular number of Abilities. If it's important to you to keep the pattern, go for it! I'm just confused, that's all.

No, that's not correct, but let me post a separate thread, since I need some feedback on that subject too and I don't want to derail this thread.

[imago]

I created a separate thread for game mechanics (and now I can refer you to it), but let me clarify your question, Abkajud.

Attribute + Ability (= Capability) is a score to roll under. Raising an Attribute point improves Effectiveness for 5 types of rolls, one per Ability (e.g, if a PC raises Lore by 1 point, Capability is improved for Academics, Occult, Sciences, Streetwise and Survival Capability). Since Instinct currently has only 4 Abilities, raising 1 point on that Attribute isn't as mechanically beneficial as doing it on some of the others.

A solution for this would be to have a different cost to raise Instinct (ex: 4 XP v/s 5 XP for other Attributes), but I'm unsatisfied with this solution, since that would discourage, then, the value of Instinct Abilities (ex: 1 point each. Instinct Abilities would cost 25% of their Ability while other Abilities would cost only 20%). The other solution would be to change the cost for both Instinct Attributes and Abilities, which leaves me even more unsatisfied because I do intend to make all traits equally valuable - if a player chooses to favor Instinct, that's their choice, but it should be just as Effective as the player who favors Lore or Spirit or just Brawl.

[chance.thirteen]

Stalk (stealth, sense of what is good prey)
Packwork (hunting, coordination)


I am assuming social dynamics are handled by a combinations of the existing traits, if not:
Pack Ettiquette

If perception is about the senses, you could add something that is about internal perception for whatever they value:
Wolf Insight

[imago]

Thanks for the suggestions, chance.thirteen. Please, let me address them:

Stalk (stealth, sense of what is good prey)

I have a problem with this - Selvagem have a Gift that allows them not to be perceived by humans, making stealth unnecesary. I have to decide if other animals can or not sense them (I'm leaning towards the former - the higher the Tension, the easier. actually, Tension might work as a reverse stealth trait in that regard).

Packwork (hunting, coordination)

Interesting. Can you elaborate on this? I think I get your point but there might be alternate ways to make this work.

Hunting, though, would be covered by Perception and Agility (and maybe Strength or Brawl).

I am assuming social dynamics are handled by a combinations of the existing traits, if not:
Pack Ettiquette

This is handled by a separate sub-system: Bonds.

If perception is about the senses, you could add something that is about internal perception for whatever they value:
Wolf Insight

That would be Harmony, under Spirit. Or do you mean something else?

For some purposes, Insight is a better name. Heck, I can't even think one when it wouldn't.

whenever a Selvagem doesn't act impulsively, Tension goes up 1 point. This is reactive to a character's behavior, and that's how I like it.

How about an Ability to deal with this and avoid gaining Tension? Just like Subterfuge is about controlling Spirit (Soul on humans). It does seem a bit counterintuitive to me, far more than relating lying to Spirit. Or maybe this should go under Spirit and Subterfuge be included as part of this restrictive behavior? However, it seems to be too close to Composure, which is something a Selvagem shouldn't have, not even on Spirit.

An Ability to channel Tension, instead? That sounds more like a Gift, though. As an afterthought, maybe an Ability to activate Gifts.

I'll keep thinkig of it. Of course, I still welcome any suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

[chance.thirteen]

I was thinking about what we as people think about wolves. About their capacities, their behaviors, their instincts, and what would make traits to distinguish one from another.

So I thought of how the pack works together as a team to hunt, and how the pack has a hierarchy that is maintained by force as well as competance (the ability to fight, to hunt, to choose when to migrate, success in mating, success in socializing).

I do think the ability to understand and navigate the complicated social bonds might deserve attention, but that might be Charisma.

Insight was a way of mixing mystical with practical wisdom. Sensing when something is ill, when a herd is over hunted, when the weather is shifting not just for this year but for this century, and so on.

[imago]

Hey,

I was thinking about what we as people think about wolves. About their capacities, their behaviors, their instincts, and what would make traits to distinguish one from another.

So I thought of how the pack works together as a team to hunt, and how the pack has a hierarchy that is maintained by force as well as competance (the ability to fight, to hunt, to choose when to migrate, success in mating, success in socializing).

I do think the ability to understand and navigate the complicated social bonds might deserve attention, but that might be Charisma.

Point taken.

However, this is a game about werewolves, people with an alien nature, yet people, at the end. The pack dynamics - Bonds - are there precisely to provide a twist to relationships within a pack without dictating a specific behavior. I am not sure if I want/need a hierarchy on this game, specially when Selvagem also have Goals on their own to care about - a wolf-like hierarchy might conflict with that, but I'd leave that option open to each group.

Besides, that could lead to gameplay more antagonizing than I think it should be.

Mental notes:

• start thread about Bonds
• think about in-pack hierarchy

Charisma has more to do with the way characters compel NPCs or each other.

Insight was a way of mixing mystical with practical wisdom. Sensing when something is ill, when a herd is over hunted, when the weather is shifting not just for this year but for this century, and so on.

Yes, yes, yes, ten thousand times yes! Consider Harmony officially renamed Insight.