Paradox: Virtue, Vice, and why the world sucks

[Tark]

While reading over some of my old articles on the column I write for RPGnet I started putting some of the ideas together I had cooked up for them and came up with a setting that had me intrigued as to its possibilities. I began some writing and here's what I've been coming up with.

At this point I'm simply in the process of world building. My mechanics would be based off another game I'm working on but that would take some heavy work itself to get close to the vision I had in mind.

What I'm looking for is a bit of ideas on fleshing this setting out, people, places, society. I have a good idea in my head, but that's a very small place that's already crowded trying to fit in a very big place.


Flavor

The setting is pretty dark and bleak think along the lines of the Berserk manga or Warhammer fantasy and you have a good idea just how nasty the setting is. It's inspired by the Coldfire Trilogy which in and of itself is a very bleak set of books if C.S. Friedman does have a frightening tendency to mercilessly kill off characters we're just beginning to give a damn about. Apart from that the game is one about struggle, the struggle to survive, the struggle against ones enemies and the struggle within ones self. Good and evil are not simply the labels given out by those who define morals but rather very real and very powerful forces in the world.

Setting

The actual setting itself is more along the lines of late bronze age, early iron age cultures and people. However unlike the massive empires and spheres of influence that marked these periods people organize themselves into city states and coalitions. The world outside the cities being as dangerous as they are it becomes difficult to form large empires and kingdoms without massive impractical investments in military and magical aid. So cities settle for loose coalitions and trade alliances.

The world outside the cities is very dangerous. While the cities often have the protection of organized military and government sanctioned magic users to fall back on villages that try to live outside the boundaries of city walls often must rely on wits or bargain with the dark and light forces that run wild outside. The Darkbrood and Engel that roam outside city walls are more aggressive and dangerous then any wild animal one could encounter and it's usually only through pacts with these beings that villages can even exist.

On top of this there isn't simply a feeling that the supernatural world is much larger and more terrifying then a normal human being, it's reality. This is portrayed through Behemoths, Dark Lords, Saints, and the bizarre weather effects known as Apocalypse Storms and Golden Rain.

Behemoths are like sentient natural disasters. The most famous and well known being the Onyx Dragon of the Aurioch desert. It is a highly territorial creature that will attack any living creature it detects within it's domain displaying a mercilessness and cruelty matched only by the most vile Dark Lords. Behemoths represent the pinnacle of Purity and Corruption being the very avatars of the twin forces.

Dark Lords and Saints represent individuals of great personal power who chose to allow themselves to be consumed one or the other force. While they are effectively demi gods they are slaves to their respective alignment and can rarely tread outside the behavioral boundaries of that force. A Dark Lord is corrupt all the way to their blackened soul and no amount of light can dispel that darkness. Characters in game can possibly become Dark Lords or Saints. They can also become Engel or Darkbrood but this transformation effectively removes the character from play.

Golden Rain and Apocalypse Storms represent the most random and perhaps most dangerous things in this world. Golden Rain is a weather effect aligned with purity that appears in the form of golden clouds and a gentle drizzle that brings spring wherever it goes. Of course it also sears the flesh of anyone with the tiniest bit of corruption in their hearts. Apocalypse storms are widely feared for their black lightning and tendency to leave blasted wastelands in their wake. A massive Apocalypse Storm was in fact responsible for completely wiping out the only known empire in the history of the world.

Races:

Human: Originally Humans existed as a slave race to the Skarne. Bred for their hardiness, versatility, short lifespans and fast breeding rates humans made excellent slaves and food for the Skarne. Fortunately when the great Apocalypse Storm rendered the vast majority of the Skarne race and their empire to blackened ash Humans managed to survive and have spread to all four corners of Paradox. They are the dominant race in Paradox at the moment having the greatest variety in cultures and perhaps the largest number of Dark Lords and Saints amongst the races of Paradox. Humans are the only race capable of spontaneously producing Virtue or Vice without actually committing a corrupt or pure act.


Skarne: The "elven" race of Paradox. They look more akin to the Dracula out of the old silent movie Nosferatu then any mythological or Tolkien knock off elf. They're carnivorous, cruel and also very hard to find in great numbers since the destruction of their empire a millennium ago. Some try to redeem their race to bring themselves from the brink of extinction while others try to rebuild their long lost dominance. When channeling vice Skarne get two bonus dice to their rolls instead of one.

Kro: Beastmen who have likely existed longer then the Skarne. To them Corruption and Purity are illusions created by the other races as a taint on the one true force: the Umbra. The Umbra is a force that allows for the existence of life and death. They predict that the taint caused by the other races will eventually unbalance the world and send it spiraling into madness and chaos, if it isn't there already. Barbaric and brutal to the core they eschew the trappings of civilization and prefer to live more natural states of existence. Because of their view of the world they gain a resistance to rolls to prevent becoming Marked or Scarred.

Seraphim: Legend has it that the first Seraphim was an Engel that fell in love with a mortal woman. When the Engel approached her the woman spurned it's affections citing that because of it's ties to purity it could never begin to understand mortal people and would always exist as a danger to herself and those she loved. Driven by love, and perhaps madness, the Engel tore off the wins on its back renouncing it's immortality and connection with Purity forever. Whether or not the Engel ever achieved the desired end is unclear. What is clear is that this legend describes the birth of the Seraphim race. They appear as statuesque humanoids of perfect build with metallic skin and hair and eyes of one of the primary colors. The only mar on their entire body is a pair of jagged scars that run parallel down their shoulder blades indicating a place where wings may have been before being mercilessly torn off. Seraphim gin bonus dice to their rolls whenever channeling Virtue.


Marks, Scars, Virtues, Vice and turning into something really really nasty.

The forces of purity and corruption do not react based upon the "intent" of an act. Regardless of intent some being somewhere knows that the act committed is inherently good or bad. Regardless of whether you steal a loaf of bread for survival or profit that has a reaction on Corruption and thus grants the character vice points. Whereas graciously giving that loaf of bread over to your sick sister is an act of good regardless of where or how you came to the bread. The point is that these twin forces are unconcerned with conscious intent and react more to that actual action then feeling. Black and white, good and evil are as clear and stark to these forces as night and day. However this does produce interesting things. It is perfectly feasible to be a holy man who worships and adores purity but does it with the intent of enslaving the frightened populace in his brilliant glory.

Characters can use virtue and vice gained from these acts in enhancing their rolls. Should a thief be caught he can channel vice into his brawn roll and literally tear off the arm of the shopkeeper that caught him. Of course this could generate more vice and the spiral of darkness continues.

However, such power comes at great risk. While simply having virtue or vice does nothing by using those points you essentially sign a pact with that particular force. So a roll must be made when using those points to ensure one is not Marked by virtue or Scarred by vice. These represent physical alterations that show your characters particular leaning. These are extraordinarily difficult to get rid of and are as easily recognized as a tattoo on the forehead saying "I am a perfect little angel."

Eventually as a character begins attaining marks and scars they must roll to prevent themselves from being utterly consumed by Purity or Corruption. Those who fail warp eternally into Engel or Darkbrood essentially becoming unplayable. Death as it were can happen without the player ever becoming physically or mentally injured.

[Vulpinoid]

You've got my attention...

That's an evocative setting...

Now tell us what the characters would be doing in such a setting and how the players would achieve this.

V

[Tark]

Now tell us what the characters would be doing in such a setting and how the players would achieve this.

V

Characters are adventurers.  Though hardly in the D&D sense.  Rather they are men and women linked by tragedy and destiny to wander the world in search of something , be it vengeance, peace, or just a place to call home.  Their journey forces them to make extraordinarily difficult decisions all while the twin forces attempt to rend the characters soul apart.  Players achieve this by making the difficult decisions of the character.  If a character is attacked by a powerful Dark Brood abomination do they risk calling upon the power garnered from their deeds in order to triumph?  Or do they rely on their own strength?  Or should they flee and save themselves but risk the lives of others to the dark broods rampage?

[Seth M. Drebitko]

Seems like an interesting concept, it will definitely result in very similar character concepts as people attempt to be the perfect mix of nice and naughty. While I think the virtues and vices will highlight the setting well, I think finding an angle that also highlights the characters inherent loss of what they love as they blaze along their path to true neutrality might add something nice.
Regards, Seth

[chance.thirteen]

If the values of virtue and vice are absolute and unchangeable a) are they also unknowable, or can characters sense the results? b) it's going to be a long hard write up of values.

Have you considered actions in conisderation of other actions. EG stealing bread is bad. However, is throwing away bread when people are startving bad? Is stealing the bread you were throwing away still a crime?

That is poorly put, but mainly I was wondering if your actions in relationshsip top others actions might be an interesting place to put some spin on this morality clockwork device and its output?

[Tark]

If the values of virtue and vice are absolute and unchangeable a) are they also unknowable, or can characters sense the results? b) it's going to be a long hard write up of values.

Have you considered actions in conisderation of other actions. EG stealing bread is bad. However, is throwing away bread when people are startving bad? Is stealing the bread you were throwing away still a crime?

That is poorly put, but mainly I was wondering if your actions in relationshsip top others actions might be an interesting place to put some spin on this morality clockwork device and its output?

They are knowable.  This is primarily because they are unchangeable. The twin forces are not intelligent entities they have about as much personality as gravity.  Here's a rough idea on what thigns actually trigger the twin forces.

Firstly, the twin forces care nothing for intent, murdering a child to save thousands is still murder, stealing bread to survive is still theft and so forth. The same goes for good acts as well. Inspiring hope, granting mercy, handing out hot steaming servings of justice, are all acts that attract purity whether or not that was the intent.

With this in mind it becomes a question of degree. At first I figured the seven deadly sins and virtues would make a good foundation to start from. Sadly while the sins are good in that they describes acts the virtues tend to represent thins that are more like states of mind. This works well from a philisophical standpoint but next to useless for a game. So we need more concrete things that can be easy for drunken gamers to udnerstand. The convienient numbering system also allows us to add some degree of severity to each act. It's necessary to have such things be relatively concrete because the twin forces are not gods nor sentient beings, they're immutable physical forces. Gravity does not show mercy, neither does corruption nor purity.

7 Acts of corruption in order of least severe to most.

1.Larceny: Theft is the lowest form of corruption. From the street beggar who palms an appls for food to the bank president who embezzles money from their bank, theft is practiced practically everwhere for many reasons. In some cities it is seen by the common folk as a bane and the first step to warping into one of the Dark Brood. In others it is seen as a relatively noble pursuit. In such cities the battle for survival is more important then drawing a small amount of vice.

2. Deception: Theft can be an act of survival, an act of heroism, deception is rarely an act of either. Even a little lie to preserve a reputation or save a life can cost the lives and property of thousands over the decades. Still deception is relatively benign compared to other acts of corruption.

3. Aggression: The act of physically attacking another person is an act of aggression. Aggression is the rive from which corruption flows. Note that this does not count for acts of self defense of the self or others.

4. Excess: Greed is the fuel for corruption. At the heart of ever dark lord lies avarice. Taking more then what one ever needs, refusing to let go that which is no longer needed, and keeping that away from others that which you have more then enough of are all acts of excess.

5. Exploitation: Using another person or corrupting a place for all its worth and then discarding it is exploitation. Rape is perhaps one of the msot vile acts of exploitation.

6. Murder: The taking of another life is one of the most corrupting acts another being can commit. Regardless of circumstances or events should another being intentionally kill someone they draw the force of corruption into their hearts.

7, Betrayal:In a world where murder, lies, and rape are not simply a means to satisfy ones physical and psychological desires but a path to supernatural power trust is one of the rarest and msot valuable commodities in existence. Because of this breaking that trust and dashing it across the stones is the most vile act of corruption one can commit.

7 acts of purity in order of least severe to most.

1. Charity: The act of giving something to another person is the lowest act of purity.

2. Truth: Purity is the lightbringer. The expunger of darkness that reveals truth for all to see. Revealing truth is an act of purity. Simply finding the truth is not enough. It is only through the open and unbiased sharing of that truth that purity takes hold.

3. Mercy: To end suffering is to grant mercy. To give quarter to a fallen enemy, to give a worker a moment of respite, to heal the sick. These are all acts of mercy.

4. Justice: To right wrong and punish those justly who have done wrong is justice. Purity must constantly battle the forces of corruption and it is through the weapon of jsutice that corruption falls while maintaining purity.

5. Hope: In a world where msot people can look forward to another day of horror and despair the ability to grant hope is highly valued. Hope is the promise of puritys redemption.

6. Martyrdom: Greater then mercy is martyrdom. To take ones pain for themselves and know the suffering of tohers is martyrdom. Sacrificing ones pleasures and taking on the burden of the weak attracts purity.


7. Love: To love another being and act upon that love is the greatest act of purity of all. Love beings us all to purity and to each other. While corruption separates and bleeds the human soul purity binds and attracts us to one another. Love is a powerful act of purity.



Now one of the things that is possible is people can commit a single acts and still commit an act of purity and corruption together. They can also commit multiple acts of purity or corruption with just a single action.

Keep in mind that gathering virtue and vice is not necessarily a bad thing as both forces can be used to enhance a characters abilities. The danger comes when they being to become corrupted/sanctified and start to lsoe themselves to the twin forces and turn into an Engel or Dark Brood. Also I know that there are differing levels regarding the exact corruptness of an act so I will have a system taht allows the GM and players to decide jsut how corrupt or pure an act is.

So now that I've unleashed the shitstorm what can we add/change/consider for this?

[chance.thirteen]

How do these forces adjudge "lawful"?

EG, Noble kills free village, takes its land, claims all deer on said land as his. His liege adds the land to the Nobles areas and obligations.

You kill a deer on said land. Theft? Or hunting?

Two groups claim one thing as theirs by their legal methods. Who is the thief?

Likewise I write a contract that costs you your life if some feature isn't met. Is not meeting the contract evil? I understand that killing the person is still Corruption on some level.

If it sounds like I am poking for fun, I'm not. I ask because the problem with ultimate authority lies in categorizing actions. Someone stil has to do that.

So issues of ownership, obligation and so on: are they based on the decisions of mortals?

If a person usurps a throne, do the obligations to the throne pass to them?

(Oddly enough this leads me to some weird thoughts about the Christian Obligation to the Merovingian dynasty, and what it would be like in a world where things such as legitimate rulership really existed as a measurable force.)

[Tark]

How do these forces adjudge "lawful"?

EG, Noble kills free village, takes its land, claims all deer on said land as his. His liege adds the land to the Nobles areas and obligations.

You kill a deer on said land. Theft? Or hunting?

Two groups claim one thing as theirs by their legal methods. Who is the thief?

Likewise I write a contract that costs you your life if some feature isn't met. Is not meeting the contract evil? I understand that killing the person is still Corruption on some level.

If it sounds like I am poking for fun, I'm not. I ask because the problem with ultimate authority lies in categorizing actions. Someone stil has to do that.

So issues of ownership, obligation and so on: are they based on the decisions of mortals?

If a person usurps a throne, do the obligations to the throne pass to them?

(Oddly enough this leads me to some weird thoughts about the Christian Obligation to the Merovingian dynasty, and what it would be like in a world where things such as legitimate rulership really existed as a measurable force.)

I think ultimately the twin forces could care less about sovereign authority of any kind.  The king stole the land so he would get the corruption for it.  However now that the land and all the deer are his hunters would get corruption for killing said deer for food.  When it comes down ot legality the forces don't seem to notice.  That being said in order for this to work you have to actually be aware of the act.  If you kill the deer unaware of the laws of the land then it's not stealing.  In this sense innocence provides a shield to the twin forces which is why nearly everyone can make it to dulthood without suffering from too much Virtue/Vice.

Ultimately in order to make this work in a game sense groups would have to be allowed to form their own answers on complex questions of property and ownership.  Trying to answer such difficult questions would make it a book and probably an interesting one but not a game.

[otspiii]

It seems to me like there's a little disconnect between purity and purity in this game.  The most obvious place for this in my eyes is in the Love virtue.

So, falling in love with another person turns you into a big weird alien-thinking angel?

I think that the game could be more interesting if Purity was more. . .impersonal and cruel, I guess might be a way to put it.  Right now "Purity" and "Corruption" just seem to be "Good" and "Evil", which is dangerous because those are such subjective and meaningless words.  If you made Purity and Corruption into something a bit more definable I think it'd really help the concepts behind them pop.

White Wolf gets a fair amount of shit on this forum (a lot of the shit is justified, granted), but they actually did something recently that sounds like it might be relevant to all this.  Inferno is all about demonic possession, with a small section on angelic possession.  Basically, the way it works is that demons are all about self-gratification while angels are all about obedience to Greater Causes.  It's interesting to me because it does a good job of making both somewhat easy to empathize with, but also very frightening and dangerous.  I think something more along those lines would work better if the game is supposed to be all about avoiding being marked by these greater warping forces.

I fucking love this setting, by the way.  I'm really interested to see where this all goes.

[Tark]

Interesting points.  IT made me look back on my lists and realize that really Purity is a pretty wussy force.  As written Purity would have been a very defensive, almost passive force.  This works well if I wanted everyone to be tree hugging hippies passing around free sex and marijuana.  However, I really want more of the "old testament god" feel out of Purity.

So first lets revise the purity side of things.

1. Charity
2. Truth
3. MercyCourage
4. Justice
5. Hope
6. Mercy
7. LoveFaith

With this followers of purity turn more into the crusading knight type of character  (note that tact, and respect are not considered virtuous according to purity).


Of course this means that corruption is going to need an overhaul as well to fit with what I was going for.

1. Larceny
2. Deception
3. AggressionFear (to inspire it)
4. Excess
5. Exploitation
6. MurderRuthlessness
7. Betrayal


By freeing up aggression and murder we make the possibility of purity aligned nations having aggressive warfare much more plausible.

[MacLeod]

The Vice/Virtue system sounds very cool. It sounds like it is very possible that characters will build up both types of points... but these aspects do not consume the character unless they actively channel them, correct? Is there going to be one list of things a character can channel, or will there be a list for Virtue and a list for Vice?

Is it bizarre that the idea that has struck me as the most interesting about this whole thing is the sentient primal forces known as Behemoths?