[Mage Blade]: Spell Building

[Lance D. Allen]

Gee,

It occurs to me that you are working with less than full context. This is partially by design: I'm trying to present my problems in limited bites, in order to focus on the specific things I need. It's also partially due to necessity: No one should have to read my whole system doc before being able to offer advice. I don't know if you've read the other thread, (though you mention having seen it) but it's a helpful piece, if not actually necessary. 

Not requiring people to read everything I've written about Mage Blade obviously puts limits on how useful advice can be. On the other hand I've got a pretty good grasp of how my mind works, and all of the half-informed suggestions here have been productive for me, if only because it helps me to think about why those suggestions wouldn't work. Sometimes, my first instinct is to dismiss the idea out of hand, because I'd already considered it, or because it was too simple. But if I address it and explain to them why I'm rejecting the idea, I might find that it could work after all.

What I am saying is that it would be helpful if you came up with a simplistic spellcasting system that fundamentally does what you want it to do, even if it's imperfect and doesn't do everything you want it to do.

Yeah, gotcha. Been there, did that. I'm past it. I want to be able to do it all now. I think maybe I can, with some work. But you do have a point: It would be valuable to see if someone besides me can create a spell. Let me pull together a rough process and put it down together.

1. Conceptualization: Come up with a spell, and a general idea of what it does.
2. Select what types of magic are used in this spell (Transformations, Manipulations, etc.)
3. Determine complexity: Take the complexity rating for each type of magic necessary
-  Transformations: transforming one thing into another, usually turning something into an element = 2
-  Manipulations: Moving or shaping an element or combined element = 1
-  Infusions: Adding an elemental quality to an object (blade of fire!) = 2
-  Invocations: Adding a simple elemental quality to a person or being (fists of fire? Water-breathing!) = 2
-  Summoning: Calling up an elemental spirit = 4
-  Evocations: Calling up a raw element = 1
4. Determine Base Drain: Decide the necessary Range, Duration and Area/Volume, add up the drain ratings for each
- Range
--- Self = 0
--- Touch = 1
--- Bowshot = 2
--- Line of Sight = 4
- Duration
--- Flash = 0
--- Sustained = 0 (reroll drain every Force rounds)
--- Empowered = 5
--- Permanent = 15
- Area
--- Point: single target/point of impact = 0
--- Arm's Reach = 1
--- Stones Throw = 2
--- Bowshot = 3
--- LOS = 4
- Volume (obviously this one needs some work...)
--- Small object/animal = 0
--- Medium object/animal = 1
--- Humanoid = 2
--- Large object/animal = 3
5. Determine Power: Decide what the numerical value of the spell should be.
- 5a. Add half (round down) of Power to get final Drain for the spell

This is rough, highly imperfect, but I think it will serve as a model. Let me try another spell.

Crystal shield: Create a physical shield of crystal
Let's just say I create it from nothing, so we'll start with Evocation. Obviously we're shaping it into a particular form, so there's Manipulation. That comes out to a Complexity 2.

Next, let's look at the scope. Obvious it can't be Self, because I'm not using an Invocation. It'll have to be Touch for Range. Let's say I don't want to keep concentrating on it, so let's make it Empowered (which gives it a duration of its own, based on the roll). The Area isn't useful, so let's look at Volume. I'd say that a shield is a medium-sized object. Let's add all those up, then to determine base Drain. 1 + 5 + 1 = 7. Ouch. That could be nasty, and we've not even considered Force yet.

Let's make Force a 5. That'll give me equivalent damage reduction to decent armor, and a +2 to Drain, for a total 9.

Crystal Shield
Force: 5E
Effect: 5damage reduction on a successful parry
Range: Touch
Volume: medium object
Duration: Empowered
Drain: S9
Casting Time: 2

Obviously it needs some tweaking. A Drain 9 spell is pretty nasty, even if the damage is short lived. But I think the principles work.

[Geethree]

That post is very helpful, thanks. Again, sorry if I came off badly. I was just trying to get something specific to work with.

As an exercise, let me try writing up a "bulwark of stone" spell to see if I can work it out.

1. Concept: calling a large body of stone to block people, provide a shield, etc.
2. Evocation (to summon the rock) + Manipulation (to shape it)
3. Complexity: 2 (evo + manip)
4. Base Drain: 9 (range: touch 1 + dur: empowered 5 + volume: large object 3)

I'm a little confused at this point, though. Do I need to give it a Force, like you did with the shield? If so, how much? If I give it very little, will the stone be fragile and easily destroyed?

[Guy Srinivasan]

Lance, have you read Luke Crane's Magic Burner? Your ideas seem very, very similar to the writeup of Abstractions (building spells for Sorcery). The main, broad strokes differences are:

a) the rest of the system is different
b) each selection of something from one of your categories contributes a difficulty and a casting time increment to the final spell
c) in Burning Wheel spells have a chance of failure, and you roll to cast and to resist "drain" with different pools but against the same difficulty

[Lance D. Allen]

Guy,

I actually just got a look at it today, along with Ars Magica 4th.

I see some strong similarities in what I'm working on with both systems. I plan to dig deep into both of them and steal liberally where applicable.

Gee,

Yeah, you'll need to give it a Power rating, which will determine its Force. If it's a low power rating, the stone will be fairly fragile, yes.

I'm beginning to see that Drain stacks up rather fast. You've got a minimum Drain 9 for your spell, if you cast it at Force 1. I may want to tweak some numbers around, and think about a fix. For now though, I appreciate your input. I'm going to bed, as I have a very early morning ahead of me.

Thanks!

[Johnstone]

It looks like you're at the point where you just need to define the scope of magic (in explanatory text), and then work with the math until it does what you want at all levels.

You have the four elements, but what does each affect? Can I shapechange with magic? Can I control somebody's mind? Can I make undead zombies that obey my will? And if I can, what elements are those spells made of?

Complexity is built out of the way the magic is shaped, and Force is there for any mechanical number the spell needs. And everything else adds numbers to the Drain rating. Cool.

I'm not seeing what "Power" is (step 5 and 5a) -- is it just the Force rating?

Does Casting Time always start at the same number, or do the various elements of a spell add numbers to that as well?

If I decide to increase Casting Time, what parts of the spell can I change? Can I increase the effective Force of a spell, above the stat points I have allocated for it? Can I increase the Complexity, so Complexity+Force is greater than 10? Is that still an issue? Or does Casting Time just reduce Drain?

If I increase Casting Time, does it go up in regular increments (+3 rounds, x4 rounds) or does it increase by stages (rounds, minutes, hours, days, months, years)? Can I do both?

You might also consider again having Range, Duration, etc. add points to the Complexity, and have Drain = Complexity+Force, minus added Casting Time. (So all the elements except Force and Casting Time add together to make the final Complexity, with or without fancy division, before equaling the Drain, which is then mitigated by Casting Time).

[Simon C]

It might also (depending on your preferences) be a good idea to weight complexity less than power. 

Consider D&D, where there are a lot of interesting spells, but they barely get used because there are some that are just more powerful.  I think it's a good idea to encourage complex spells (which require creative and interesting uses) over powerful spells (which you just fire and forget).  I'm not so likely to summon a fire elemental (which I have to command, and find ways to use), if I can just fire off a fireball that is more dangerous for the same cost.

[Lance D. Allen]

Simon,

If you notice, complexity pretty much adds just to casting time. So spells when time matters (say, in combat) are more likely to be those fire-and-forget spells, where your more complex spells will tend to be used outside of combat. This is basically as intended, though it's one thing I definitely want to tweak.

Johnstone,

5 elements. Void is less commonly used (and never used alone), but no less important.

Shapechange: Yes. Into what?
Mind control: Air/Void
Zombies: Earth/Void

Power is the numerical effect of the spell. I've not just scrapped it and made it the same as Force (again) because I'm thinking that some of the way to take the stress off of drain is to shift some of the effect to Force. So Force will be a combination of the Power rating, and some of the scope (range, area/volume, duration). I haven't decided how to do it, but I'm thinking I need to.

Casting time needs to get a bit of a kick in the pants too, I think. Having quick-cast combat spells is good. Having it be easy to be quick-cast isn't quite so good.

You might also consider again having Range, Duration, etc. add points to the Complexity, and have Drain = Complexity+Force, minus added Casting Time. (So all the elements except Force and Casting Time add together to make the final Complexity, with or without fancy division, before equaling the Drain, which is then mitigated by Casting Time).

I've about used up all the brain-power I have available just after finishing up an Army Physical Fitness Test. I'll ponder on that, and see what comes of it.

[Simon C]

This is sounding good Lance.

What do you still need help with?

[Lance D. Allen]

Simon,

I think I may actually be good, for now. Obviously there are details that need to be worked out, but I believe I can handle them. I think at this point any further discussion may simply be my innate desire to discuss things. I'm not saying that nothing productive could come out of it, but the initial problem which prompted me to post has been largely resolved. As we've been carrying on this conversation, I've been working on other chapters of the full text, and carrying on independent discussions of the setting. This stuff we've been talking about in these two threads will form the core of a fairly extensive magic chapter, which I will probably begin writing soon.

I don't want to make promises that I may not keep, but I've made more progress on this project in the last few months than I have in years. My next couple of months or so should leave me time to finish a large part of the remaining work. After that, my main focus will be on redeployment back to the U.S. and settling back into life and getting to know my wife and son all over again. By some time next year, however, it would be reasonable to expect to hear something definitive about Mage Blade. Not publishing yet.. God, no. But a playtest document, almost certainly.