Survival, Glory, and Love

[MikeF]

Not a game idea as such, more a framework for a game idea.

*

The game focuses around a quest of some sort. In my head this is for an Arthurian setting, but that's far from set in stone, and I think the framework could work in several genres.
So in the game each player has three goals - Survival, Glory, and Love.
Survival is about the character's personal safety – making it through the end of the adventure to go questing again some day, or to enjoy the fruits of their victory, or perhaps just to go home, marry, raise kids, write that novel, prune roses, whatever.
Glory is achieving the Quest – finding the maguffin, rescuing the kingdom, forging the alliance, slaying the dragon, finding the ring, whatever the GM sets as the in-game purpose.
Love is winning the heart of the person that the character most values – the princess, or the king, or the brotherhood, or the estranged family.

Throughout the game the players face challenges, and by overcoming them win resources. As each challenge is overcome they must decide whether to put those resources into Survival, Glory, or Love.

At the end of the game there is a climax, in which the fate of the character is decided. The player rolls for each of these three things separately, and then an epilogue is narrated depending on the outcome.
In principle it should be possible to Survive, win Glory, AND win Love, but to do so  would require considerable luck, and a stunning series of victories throughout the game. In practice the game would force players to focus their resources in one or two of the goals - knowingly sacrificing themselves to save the Kingdom (resources going to Glory rather than Survival), or saving their own skin but abandoning their hearts desire (Survival rather than Love). I'm hoping this could give a tragic momentum to the story.

Before I spend more time on this bare bones skeleton I wanted to see what you folks thought. Some immediate worries I had were
-   It might be boring, focusing on one or two goals early, knowing that your character is therefore likely to end up failing in the third.
-   It could be tricky to develop stories where the three goals are convincingly orthogonal ("so, I lost my life, AND the dragon ravaged the kingdom, but the princess STILL loves me?")
Thoughts? Is this worth sketching out a bit more?

Michael.

[dmkdesigns]

Not a game idea as such, more a framework for a game idea.

*

The game focuses around a quest of some sort. In my head this is for an Arthurian setting, but that's far from set in stone, and I think the framework could work in several genres.
So in the game each player has three goals - Survival, Glory, and Love.
Survival is about the character's personal safety – making it through the end of the adventure to go questing again some day, or to enjoy the fruits of their victory, or perhaps just to go home, marry, raise kids, write that novel, prune roses, whatever.
Glory is achieving the Quest – finding the maguffin, rescuing the kingdom, forging the alliance, slaying the dragon, finding the ring, whatever the GM sets as the in-game purpose.
Love is winning the heart of the person that the character most values – the princess, or the king, or the brotherhood, or the estranged family.

Throughout the game the players face challenges, and by overcoming them win resources. As each challenge is overcome they must decide whether to put those resources into Survival, Glory, or Love.

At the end of the game there is a climax, in which the fate of the character is decided. The player rolls for each of these three things separately, and then an epilogue is narrated depending on the outcome.
In principle it should be possible to Survive, win Glory, AND win Love, but to do so  would require considerable luck, and a stunning series of victories throughout the game. In practice the game would force players to focus their resources in one or two of the goals - knowingly sacrificing themselves to save the Kingdom (resources going to Glory rather than Survival), or saving their own skin but abandoning their hearts desire (Survival rather than Love). I'm hoping this could give a tragic momentum to the story.

Before I spend more time on this bare bones skeleton I wanted to see what you folks thought. Some immediate worries I had were
-   It might be boring, focusing on one or two goals early, knowing that your character is therefore likely to end up failing in the third.
-   It could be tricky to develop stories where the three goals are convincingly orthogonal ("so, I lost my life, AND the dragon ravaged the kingdom, but the princess STILL loves me?")
Thoughts? Is this worth sketching out a bit more?

Michael.

Just from a quick read it sounds like it could be a fun RPG or boad/card game sort of thing. And I can see where you could adapt this to other crusade types such as super heroes with a challenge to succeed in their private life, gain fame (or infamy), and make it through to fight another day. I suppose you could even stretch out events to make it last more than one session if that was desired, but I can see how this could be a fun convention game.

Is this something you want to be a two-player game with a single knight against the GM's challenges, or have several knights cooperating and perhaps competing for some of the goals?

Because it is very goal-driven will there be scenes set aside for roleplaying before the end of the game about how your knight is trying to achieve their three goals as a means to influence the epilogue?

[Michael S. Miller]

Hi, Mike.

What you're talking about sounds a great deal like Tim Koppang's Hero's Banner. In that game, your character has three goals, but only one of them can ever come to pass. The drama comes from needing to make that choice, scene-by-scene, and illustrating the consequences for those goals that will fail. I suggest you check it out.

-   It could be tricky to develop stories where the three goals are convincingly orthogonal

I wouldn't worry about that. The scene-by-scene creativity of the players should allow them to make a plausible story. Play will build to these endings, they won't spring out of nowhere.

Is this worth sketching out a bit more?

You're the only one who can answer that.

[Ron Edwards]

I suggest considering two models of play for this concept. One would have a lot of running around and adventuring and all kinds of stuff, but then at the end, wham, the choice appears and you choose. The other has a lot of build: the choices are present and relevant in play throughout the character's history, and so the final choice doesn't appear so much as crest. I happen to think the second model is better for the goals of play which you're describing.

Mike's recommendation of Hero's Banner is a good one, because it requires prioritizing the goals as you go along, but the prioritizing doesn't itself lock down the options for the next time you choose. So play consists of the character "trying out" different goals as more important than the others, and often pulling dramatic reversals based on what's happened.

Best, Ron

[Kanosint]

It sounds like an interesting concept. Through I wonder if 'Survival' isn't a bit narrow in its current state.

Glory consists of a broad spectrum of options: defeating a foe, becoming a man of importance, maybe even being the best shoe salesman of the village.
Love is equally broad, winning respect or adoration of peers, or that special someone you desire to spend your life with...
Survival... Is merely staying alive. While this is defenitely important, it seems to be rather set in stone. Why not a more general well-being of body? Glory is the wellbeing of mind (being pleased with your achievements), and Love is the wellbeing of your social life...

This is only my opinion, though, and it's quite possible I misunderstood.

[contracycle]

Survival could be extended to other social concenrs.

Survival... of the kingdom/duchy etc.
... of the rebellion against the pretender
... of the family/dynasty

All of which could produce the interesting outcome of a survival victory that includes the death of the character.