Research: rewarding idealism

[Wordman]

I'm playing with notions of reward incentives for following specific philosophies, without really caring about what the philosophies are. I'm researching systems that already do this, and could use some recommendations. Specifically, I'm looking for games that:

1) allow (or even force) a player to choose a philosophy for there character to follow.
2) reward the character and player for following that philosophy
3) have no particular desire to push one philosophy over another.

Part of Unknown Armies does this, for example, with the way it handles Godwalkers.

Artesia does this a bit more blatantly, with its explicit xp awards for behavior when following its paths.

Any others?

[JoyWriter]

I suppose you can do something like this with Keys in Shadow of yesterday. Vulpinoid's games currently under development like "rajah spiny rat" do it too.

I think white wolf's Promethean does that too up to a point, and I can't remember whether their old Mage did it. I really wish Planescape had done it.

There's also Burning Wheel's belief system.

[Callan S.]

Who decides whether the PC has followed the philosophy? Player or GM?

Philosophy is very reactive to interpretation - if the GM decides, he may be rewarding/will only reward a philosophy the character just doesn't have (not even to begin with).

[contracycle]

Meant to reply to this earlier.  Fates Worse Than Death has a section on personal beliefs which PC's must take, and rewards XP for following these philosophies.  They are also quite insightfully done (as is the whole setting, a very interesting post-cyberpunk game that deserves more attention IMO).  It also gives XP awards for "making the world a better place", and penalties for making it a worse one.

These are individually outweighed by rewards for completing adventure goals, but together they can comprise a sizable chunk of the final XP award.

[Simon_Pettersson]

Nobilis. Vampire.

[Vulpinoid]

I'm glad Joywriter brought up some of the ideas I'm currently working on.

And, I'm glad a couple of other people have brought up games in the thread that go some of the way...but which can easily fall far short (depending on the group playing the game).

A lot of the concepts I've been playing with lately have revolved around the vampire morality system (more specifically, the morality system used by the Sabbat in the old world of darkness, with specific paths indicating specific ways to transcend one's current state)...or the twist on Natures and Demeanors as found in Mage: the Ascension (where each has a positive aspect that give ideas where a personality archetype might excel, and a negative aspect indicating where the personality archetype will often struggle).

My current games are working with the notion that everyone is defined by paths that they follow. A player can choose to have a very one dimensional character who follows only a single path, or they can become as diverse as they want by following multiple paths. Such paths include everything from occupations, religions, personality types, subcultures, racial types, supernatural powers, virtues, vices, etc. If it's not a flat number and it helps you twist the narrative to your advantage, it fits into one of these paths.

On the down side, every path has a disadvantage associated with it. If your a cop, you might get a bonus to investigation skills and you might have a decent familiarity with firearms...but on the down side, you'll be expected to behave in a certain manner at all times, and quite often you'll be assigned to tasks by your superiors whether you want to or not.

Every time you accept the flaw of your path, you're mastery in the path increases and you get advantages.

From the Quincunx text...

Consider a pair of drug-addled junkies, each with a different attitude to their addiction.

One junkie is trying to kick their habit, he knows that every time he's on the jones for a fix he'll suffer withdrawal symptoms. He could give in to his habit (and avoid the nausea and pain), every time he does this he'll gain a bit more control over the addiction and might eventually kick the habit.

Another junkie really doesn't care; as soon as the cravings hit, he goes for the fix (each time falling further under its control).   


Now consider a group of minor celebrities who have come into the limelight for different reasons. One is looking for fame and a lucrative advertising contract, one is trying to avoid exposure and the paparazzi, a third has a famous relative and is just cashing in on their association to fame in order to get ahead in life.

The first celebrity knows that the only way to get ahead in the world of tabloid fame is to give up on a private life; she doesn't resist the photographers, she allows the tabloid magazines to print scandalous stories. The more she allows the paparazzi to take her photo, the more she becomes famous for simply being famous. Unless she puts her fame to good use, she'll be the butt of media jokes locally and abroad.

The second celebrity became famous for means beyond her control and she tries to avoid the sensationalist press; every time she resists them it might cost her dearly, but every time she does so the tabloids consider it less worthwhile to pursue her.

The third celebrity acquired their early fame simply through being a sister to someone talented and famous, but she's trying to make her own career. Sometimes she longs for the media attention and accepts the scandalous stories, other times she rebels against the invasive photographs, and celebrity blog articles. She as a love-hate relationship with the tabloid press and this keeps her newsworthy for a long time.

I'm still refining the system, but that's the aim...it gives the players a real chance to show their character's motivations, beliefs and morality, rather than just telling through numbers on a page.

V


 

[Vulpinoid]

I've noted that my last post might not look like it addresses the issues of character philosophy/outlook at all, but I'm just trying to indicate that I've included morality and philosophy at a holistic level...everything links together. 

I've also made a deliberate attempt not to claim one philosophy or belief is "right", by ensuring every path has equally impactful flaws that relate to the beliefs inherent in the path, and equally beneficial bonuses that also reflect the values sought by the path followers.

I should also note that I've written the system in such a way that players can mix and match their own philosophies and belief systems to come up with unique outlooks for their characters.

If you want to have a look at what I've been working on...(see Rajah Spiny Rat or Quincunx).

Feel free to discuss, use the concepts involved or offer critique...

V

[dmkdesigns]

I'm playing with notions of reward incentives for following specific philosophies, without really caring about what the philosophies are. I'm researching systems that already do this, and could use some recommendations. Specifically, I'm looking for games that:

1) allow (or even force) a player to choose a philosophy for there character to follow.
2) reward the character and player for following that philosophy
3) have no particular desire to push one philosophy over another.

Part of Unknown Armies does this, for example, with the way it handles Godwalkers.

Artesia does this a bit more blatantly, with its explicit xp awards for behavior when following its paths.

Any others?

Would this include the old alignments from D&D/AD&D games as well? Natures/Demeanors from White Wolf possibly.