Streed (R) Rpgs needs directions! (& co-developers?)

[Catelf]

I said i would, once i knew where and how, and here it is.
My main problem is, that i cannot seem to know in which direction(s) to take this game.
It is currently mainly a Games System that i developed to suit both Rpg & Miniature Gaming, and i have been unable to choose between all my ideas for a specific genre, setting, and such.
I got the suggestion to focus on what i like, but this has only made it possible to narrow it down to these categories:
*  Shanty Zones: Mix Road Warrior, Western, and Gamma World(or even better, the Original version of an old Swedish Rpg called "Mutant").
*  Eerie: Suspense, Horror, Action, Splatter, and a tendency for player characters to become ... Gifted, by divine beings, be they Angels, Demons, * 
             Mythic Gods & Godesses, or Elder Horrors...   after a while.
*  Animakin: Think Batman & Watchmen's NiteOwl meets Ninja Turtles and all inbetween. From Cospaying Neko-wannabees to a Crocodile that can
                   speak human language. I personally prefer Felines myself (of course.....).
*  Cogex: Think Cosplay, but the Clothes and Items really grants their possessor Special Powers!
*  Roxic: The world has gone wierd, kind of. Scandinavia has much of Trolls and Elves; Great Britain has Midevial knights, Leprecauns(i think i spelled i
              wrong), and Druids; Eastern Europe has Vampires, Japan has Mecha Armors, Nekos, Kitsunes, Samurais, Ninjas, and far more than their share
              of Giant Lizards and monsters with tentacles; North America is a patchwork of Giant Cities, Wastelands, towns with Gunslingers and saloons,
              and a coast haunted by something octopus-looking...... And, the Atlantic ocean is travelled by sailors, seadogs, and Pirates, aboard wooden
              ships with lead cannons.

That said, let's get to the Core Rules of Streed Rpg system. (This is directly copied from a text i wrote in Actual Play, more or less.)
Now to the Rules:
If you know White Wolf's WoD Storytelling Games, that is great! This is both similar and very not similar.
If not, follow this for characters(This is the extreme Crunch Rules):
Basic Attributes.
Strength, Body, Agility, Speed, Charm, Senses, Thought, Health, Will, KI,
Divide 25 Points on these, Minimum 1, Max 5.

Skills. Sine this is fast Crunch Rules, you may choose any fairly regular Skills & Knowledges from any regular rpg, but White Wolf's are clearly preferred.
Choose 10, and divide 20 Points among those, Minimum 1, Max 7(this is total mastery).

Crunch Combat section:
Go in order of Speed. If Equal, roll same type of Die and highest goes first.
Punch: Add Strength + any Brawl/Unarmed Fighting skill you have.
Turn it into a die Roll: 1-2=D4-1   3-4=D4   5-6=D6   7-8=D8   and so on.
Roll.
If the result Exceeds opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 1 wound.'
If the result is more than Double opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 2 wounds instead.
If the result is more than triple opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 3 wounds.
and so on.
If you take Wounds equal or more than you have Health, You are KO'd(not dead yet).

Non Combat Skill checks:
Roll Skill + proper Attribute or less on the Die that matches the Difficulty to Succeed, or Fail

So now i ask, has any any ideas at all?
In the Actual Play thread i referred to, someone thought the idea of Animakin was nice.
Also, i have no intention of going commercial with this, at least i'll avoid it if possible: this is an attempt to make the game(s) i want to play, and a truly working, but still very fast system for others.
Sincerely, Catelf.

[dindenver]

Cat,
  Between this and the other thread, there seems to be a lot of crunch. I wonder if this is not a result of the games you have played. It seems like there are a few games out there that you can draw on to improve your design.

Examples:
Trollbabe: Ron's game is about women who are half human and half troll. But instead of getting the worst of both, they get the best of both. Anyways, it has a mechanic where you assign the character a Number and sometimes you need to roll above it, and other times you need to roll below it in order to succeed. I think this would be a great mechanic for your game. If you want to do something humans do, roll above it, if you want to do something animals do, roll below it. And then the Stat becomes how much like an animal you are!

Dogs in the Vineyard: In this game, you get dice to assign to Traits. But the game lets you pick ANY trait you want. Why? Because the trait is only as good as the dice you assign to it. So, even if you pick a "Destroy the world with the power of my mind" trait, and give it a 1d10 rating (a lot in that game), it is not, in reality, any more potent than any other 1d10 trait. The reason I am pointing this out is, because in the other thread, you started fretting about how to design each and every trait a animal/human hybrid "might" have. But, I "think" the fun would be in making your own up and then assigning a cool value to it. the mechanics you have to resole things are pretty slick, I think making a player-created trait plug into that would be a great addition in the same theme of your original design.

Cortex/Savage World: In these games, stats are rated by the dice you roll when you use them. So, for instance, you could have a Strength of 1d4 (pitiful) or 1d12 (awesome). And instead of giving it a value, then translating it into a die (like you are doing now), you could just have your characters' abilities rated in that die in the first place.

  Anyways, apart from the laundry list of animal traits, I think you have a cool Core.

  As far as which game to run with, the trick to succeeding is to find something you are passionate about and stick to it. The passion can drive you past writer's block, distractions, etc. So, of those ideas you listed, which one makes you the most excited to play it?

[Catelf]

Thank you for your reply, Dindenver!
Hmmm...
The "Trollbabe" version of Human/Animal Stat is clearly interesting, but i must revise it to truly make it fit... so i think this truly will fit:
Designer: Choose 1-5, no Background points or such is spent to afford this, and each Point of this Stat allows you to take one or two appropriate Traits.
However, the more you have, the less freedom you have, since your Designer considers you more and more "Property", rather than your own being.......
Hm, you may actually have solved That problem for me, Thanks!

Really, one of the things that i am passionate about, is that "laundry list" that you refer to.... and also, it has often been a question of "what to include, and what not"....
That is one of the reasons why "Dogs in the Vineyard"- and similar Freeform-like traits would not work.
Yes, i know i was fretting, but troublesome as it may seem, or be, these distinct Traits is neccesary to keep the intended coherency to the Game.
The idea is to make the Rules Rigid, but Simple and Fast, Allowing for ... i think it was "Gamist" satisfaction there, and at the same time putting those Rules so they don't risk obstructing the Adventuring parts of the Game.
The question is more likely: what Traits to keep on the list, what to add, and what to remove?
I do want to keep it simple, but making it a bit Freeform-like do not suit my intentions for it, so, no on that.

Cortex/Savage World.
Read Streed's Core Rules again... or not, just here:
It is Only for Damage(with built in to hit) Purposes that Strength + Skill is turned into a Die Roll.
Not otherwise.
In regular Skill checks, you Roll D6(Easy) or D12(Hard), and want to get equal or below the Skill's and/or appropriate Basic Attribute's Value, to Succeed.
I have considered this before, though, but since i fancy the truly easy way to design Player Characters that White Wolf's Storytelling Games has, i would have wound up with translating even more Traits into Die Rolls!
So, on that idea, no.

And then, lastly, of those ideas i listed, ALL of them makes me the most excited! Occasionally, i lean more toward Roxic, and occasionally, more towards Shanty Zones, and virtually all of those alternatives probarbly include Animakin of some kind, but of course, far less than in their "own" Game!

But i am grateful for the possible above solution, which really may solve two (or at least one-and-a-half) problem for me!
Thank you!
                            Catelf.

[Catelf]

Forgot this:
However, lots of problems still remains...
           Catelf

[Catelf]

Here comes an update on my minor progress:
Inspired by the idea of "Small" games, such as Macho Women with Guns( especially the earlier editions, i guess), and some of the games presented here at the Forge, i've decided to try a game or two of that kind first.
Theu'll be, essentially, Core Rules(already specified above, but with specific Skills instead of the "Crunch" option.) and one specific addition, like this:
Core Rules + Ferals(Mainly Feline and Canine Animakin, of the hybridated kind).
Core + Advanced Weapon List.
Core + some Magic
Core + Masked Crimefighters(No special powers!).
Core + Martial arts moves.
And so on.
I'm leaning towards the two first to begin with, the others i partially added as examples.
However, i'd still appreciate ideas on how to continue, and some to test it once a version is finished.
Sincerely,
                               Catelf.

[Catelf]

To give some "fleshin out" of the Core Rules, i here add another part from the Connecions thread i had:
Some more examples on Combat:
Kick: Add Strength + 1 + any Brawl/Unarmed Fighting skill you have.
You can only use this if you have 4 or more in Agility + Acrobatics (or similar).
Turn it into a die Roll, as above, and so on.

Sword: Add Strength + any Melee/Armed Fighting skill you have, and so on.

Pistol: Add the Pistol's "Strength" of 4 to any (proper) Firearms Skill you have.
Turn it into a die Roll, and so on.

Yes, these Rules are simple. They are this, in order to fast accomplish credible results in fights, so that one can get maintain a story, even while fighting, without getting bogged down by it.

Also, it is good if you don't forget two things:
*To score a Miss:
If you Roll a Natural "2" on any Damage Roll, you have MISSED.
It does not matter if you have Boosted your Die to have +20 to the resullt Rolled, or so, a Natural "2" is Always a Miss!
*To Fumble:
If you Roll a Natural "1" on any Damage Roll, OR get it as a Roll Total, you have FUMBLED.
This means you have botched, made some mistake, or gotten bad luck, and you must forfeit your next Turn or Action, since.... you may have fallen to the floor, and must stand up, or you have gotten your Sword stuck in a door, or dropped it, or your pistol is Jammed, out of ammo(?!), or its magasine is dropped, and so on.
The GM has Always the llast word on this.

[Maugh]

First off, I apologize if I come off as harsh, because I"m not trying to, but your posts are borderline incoherent.  It would be really useful if you could improve your organization just a little bit when presenting this stuff.  It will make it much easier to critique.  That having said, I want to help you out, so I'll post what I can.

First off, I really don't know which direction you should take it.  I think the correct answer is whatever direction you think is best.  It sounds like you're most interested in working on the anthro project, so that's probably the direction you should go.

On your mechanics:  I do like that you're converting the stat numbers into dice.  That's a mechanic that we've found very useful.  Do you have an organized character sheet that will help characters resolve this?  That kind of a guide is very helpful. 

I like that the 2 is a miss and the 1 is a fumble.  That has an interesting statistical interaction when shifting the dice from d4 to d6 all the way up to d12.  Each step on that scale increases the average result by 1, and decreases the probability of fumbling.  Careful concern, however, should be taken when jumping up to d20, because it's a significant step up.  I would avoid using the d20 entirely.  It's also noteworthy that you -can- get d14's and d16's on the internet.  They're neat.

I would lean toward a list of standard skills, rather than letting them go totally free-form.  Not doing so opens the door for overly-generalized skills that become imbalanced.  Letting players use additional skills is great, but not when they take the place of standard skills and more.  Then again, I've broken this rule in my own games before, so I suppose there is some flexibility.

It would serve you well to write up a complete, professionally organized document that includes the rules.  It doesn't have to be perfect, but reading a complete rules set would go a LONG way toward helping people understand your game.  I'd be happy to see it and even read it for you.  The better polished and organized it is, the more likely you are to get a positive response.

Thanks for the read.

[dindenver]

Cat,
  OK, two things spring to my mind:
1) If Kick is Str+Unarmed+1 and Punch is Str+Unarmed, why would anyone punch? Maybe Kick should be Str+Unarmed and Punch should be Dex+Unarmed or something like that?
2) So, if I understand correctly, the mechanic foes like this, I kick you:
I am awesome, I have Str of 5 and Unarmed of 5.
You are awesome too, you have Body 5 and Armor of 3
I can only hit you 1/3 of the time (1d12 vs . Is that right?

  But, if I was not so awesome and had a Str of 3 and a Unarmed of 2, I could never hit you (1d6 vs , is that you, is that right?

  Is that what you want, invulnerable characters?

  Anyways, it seems like you know what you want. So, instead of asking the Forge for permissions, charge on! Make the game you would love to play, then play it and when its done, you can distribute it if you want.

[Catelf]

Thank you for replying!
Maugh, Your notes may be more lengthy, so i take the easy part, that is, respond to dindenver, first:
Dindenver:
1: You would Punch, if you cannot Kick. You must have 4+ in Agility + Acrobatics.
Also, Punch and kick may hav different "Special Variants", but those only comes into play, if one chooses to add the "Streetfighter" setting to the Ststem, or similar.
And, besides, this is the Basic Crunch Rules.
2: Not quite, You HIT as long as you don't Roll a 1 or 2, but you only cause a WOUND on 1/3!
(3:) This, i long had a problem with, and even once had a system with Perfect Rolls, but that proved dysfunctional.
Thus, instead entered two things:
One: If you meet someone buff and protected, and yourself is not very buff nor Skilled, who says you should have a chance to hurt the   
         buffed even the slightest? This really makes it more realistic, in a way.
Two: Ki. Here, the Crunch Rules and True Core differs.
         In the Crunch, you may spend 1 Ki, to get +1 to the Total Rolled(Extensive Damage), or 2 Ki to get +2, and so on.
         But still remember, a Natural 2 is STILL a Miss, and a Natural 1 a Miss and a Fumble.
          Since the Ki must be spent in advance, You may end up spending all of your Ki..... and Miss!
         In the True Rules, it is more or less the same, but you note 1 Exhaustion to ger as much Extensive Damage as you have Ki Value,
          (there, you have a basic of 4 Exhaustion).
Invulnerable characters? Well, they're not invulnerable, they're just "immune" against attacks dealt from too little Strength and Skill.
I think that explained it.
(Maugh, your's follow hereafter).
Thank you.                   Catelf.

[Catelf]

Maugh, thank you so much for looking in, your comments just proves you're far more on my "wavelength" than many others here!
First, Much of the above has become "Crunched" to allow for a quicker understanding, and playtest preparations.
I do realise, especially now that you pointed it out, that this resulted in a slightly "Freeformish" way to look at the Skills.
So here is, what may be, the near-complete Core Skill list (not Crunched):
*Botanics*, *Cooking(for Alcemical Witchcraft as well as Dinner service)*, *Stealth*, *Acrobatics*, *Brawl(Unarmed)*, *Melee(Armed)*, 
*Domination (to make other Want to obey you, NOT bullying)*,
*Masquing(mainly for looking as something else, but also for switching appearence, Agent-style)*,
*Tutorial(both for teaching humans, and training(other) animals)*, *Demolitions(Skill with Dynamite & such)*,
*Firearms(from Pistols to Rifles & Karbines, both automatic and not)*,
*Focus(may affect mainly several special Energy-attacks & such)*,
*Pilot(Plane and/or Helicopter. If Manga, non-slender ArmorMechas also use this for some things)*,
*Strategy(Warfare Skill & Knowledge), *Academics(Basic "School" Knowledge)*,
*Area(Define the Area, usually a city, that the character knows the inns & outs of)*, *Chemistry*,
*Medicine*, *Mythics(Mythological knowledge, at 4+, you've noticed what may be true(depending on Setting) and what not)*, *Occult*,
*Technology*, *Vidastra(only if Aliens is present, it is to know of those and their variations)*, *Crafting*, *Drive(Car and/or MC)*, *Investigation*, *Gridrun(Computer Skill, to the extent of Neuromancer efficiency)*, *Media(Intervjuing and camera skills, some gossip)*, *Subterfuge(lying)*, *Nobliquette(Etiquette Rules, but not just among Nobles...)*, *Security*......,
That was that list: No "Freeforming there.
I'll comment the rest in next Reply,

[Catelf]

And here it comes:
Yes, i know it is .... a bit incoherent, but the full info is muchly in my head, since i still don't know where to wtite it all down in a matter so i can link to it.
Also, the above Rule descriptions firstly got a bit (purposefully) crunched, in order to present the main Rules Fast.
But now, when actual interest has been shown, i've been eager to fill in the gaps afterwards.
Thus, some incoherency. And clearly, no apology needed: You were entirely correct there.

Oh, and as i explained above, in an even earlier note to dinenver, it is only for Combat Damage purposes that the Points(Dots, really, i like the White Wolf Character Systems) is converted to Dice: In Regular Skill checks, you Roll a Die according to difficulty, and hope(kind of) to get equal or below the Stats that is valid for it.
And i DO have an organized Character Sheet, Wich includes a Section called Streed Mini Rules, where the GM is to write down some quick reference stats, including the main means of Attack and their Damage Rolls.
Otherwise it is a bit "White Wolfish" with dots & circles in the Attribute & Skill Areas.

Yes, i do like the consistency of the 1's and 2's.
When it comes to Dices, i've noticed, that with the current System, one rarely get Damage Dice of above 12, so i usually say, that i save D20's for Mega-Damage things like Giant Robots, Godzilla, Superman-types, and some Lovecraftian Horrors.....
And if i would end up with "D14" or "D16", i'll turn them usually into D12+1 and D12+2, respectively.
I know, this don't make it harder to get 1 or 2, but that level of Damage is..... powerful enough as it is.

..... If You(or someone else) can tell me how to put up the Rules somwhere, and how to link it, i'll gladly do so!
Thank you so much,
                                      Catelf.

[Catelf]

Oh, i almost forgot, thank you, dindenver, for your encouragement!
And, i obviously need to say this more coherently, so i'll do:
I'm not looking for any "ok" from the Forge.(Thankfully, i don't need to.)
I have the Core Rules finished, and (quite)some more.
But, I have problems focussing on one Setting and such in particular, but  when others show interest, it do seem to become easier for me to focus.
Maybe that explains a few things.
               Catelf.

[Catelf]

Think i'll end this Topic here.
Maybe i'll start a new, coherent one within a month... or more.
....or not.
Maybe i can ask more answerable questions then....
or not.
Thank you Maugh & dindenver.
                        Catelf.