permanent spells

[Jake Norwood]

Ron's anwer, above, is exactly the idea.

(a) I want to say concerning "lasting effects," however, that if you use an instant spell to turn someone into a toad then they become a toad. Do the "spring back" when the spell is up...that's really a matter of group taste. What I mean is in rules-lawyer-heavy type games an instant spell that turns you into a toad is permanent. The change was made and now no longer requires any magic to sustain it. Other magic (inverting the spell, I suppose) woud un-do, restoring you to your original shape. This, I believe, is how it was intended.

Don't forget that I didn't write the Sorcery for TROS...

(b) Another way of looking at it is that it takes sustained magic (like a constant spell) to keep you as a toad, in which case you'd have to spend a die to make that permanent.

I'm actually quite fond of the "kiss to break the spell" method, and that is going to be in Sorcery and the Fey.

In both (a) and (b), however, spells such as illusions, flight, etc, with effects that are upkept or sustained due to a nature of constant change, control, whatever, must use the one spent die to be made permanent.

Do this: Decide what your group's interperatation is (a or b, above) for permant spells, and go with it. Ron's ideas are right in line with my thinking.

Yeah, I agree. It's confusing. Hopefully some stuff we'll be releasing onto the web soon will clear a lot of this up for good. Until then you'll have to decide how your group wants to handle it. Sorry I can't do more offhand...Sorcery wasn't (and really sort of isn't) my bag.

Jake

[Brian Leybourne]

But then you decide to spend a point from your Sorcery Pool, forever. Gone. A whole Vagary point, gone forever, just scratch it off your sheet.

Ron

I agree with all of your comments, except this one. Sorcery Pool and Vagary scores are quite different. Losing a point from your SP permanently means you have one fewer die to cast all future spells with, but it doesn't affect your scores in the various vagaries.

Brian.

[Atomic Requiem]

Thanks for the replies. I have a much better picture of spell durations now.

*AR*

[Ron Edwards]

Brian,

Agreed. Only the Pool itself is affected, and the Vagary phrase in my post was incorrect.

Best,
Ron

[Lyrax]

If I may put in my two-sense worth (pun intended)...

I think that a sorceror should be able to make spells permanent, but with a great loss to his sorcery pool.  An "out," or some sort of mundane activity to break the spell could be added and chosen by the spellcaster to reduce aging, reduce difficulty or reduce the number of dice lost.  The effectivity would be determined by the difficulty of the "out."  If the "out" was for the subject to, as a frog, jump, then it would drastically reduce the difficulty and the bad effects of making the spell permanent, but it would be broken once the frog jumped anywhere.  This would give sorcerors who make spells permanent great incentives to make such a way out of the enchantment.

Additionally, I think that places of magic, help from other sorcery-using people/creatures, and other great magical resources should give plenty of bonus dice for casting spells or lessen the cost of making them permanent.

These would explain why most sorcerors in fables make a way out of their enchantments, and why they always seem to do their magic in their own homes, etc.

[Jake Norwood]

Getting dangerously close to content from Sorcery and the Fey...

;-)

Jake

[Lyrax]

I haven't seen it yet, honest!

[Sneaky Git]

Sorry about resurrecting an old thread.. but I'm a little curious.

Page 135-136 has a spell called "Sustain."  Maybe that will help you out...

Hmm.  I'm assuming this spell was dropped from the reprint of tRoS?  I'm /hoping/ it was dropped.. because I can't find it anywhere.  Can anyone help?  Where exactly is this explained within the rules?

[Jake Norwood]

Yeah, this whole thread came from the pre-release version. Magic underwent the biggest change, and has been significantly streamlined. It's a good thing, I promise.

This thread it is now closed.

(I so feel like Ron saying that...ooooh the power ::grin::)

Jake

[Sneaky Git]

Yeah, this whole thread came from the pre-release version. Magic underwent the biggest change, and has been significantly streamlined. It's a good thing, I promise.

This thread it is now closed.

(I so feel like Ron saying that...ooooh the power ::grin::)

Jake

Ah.. humbly chastised, I slink back to my corner. ;)

Thanks

[Jake Norwood]

LOL...no chastisement! I was mostly poking fun at Ron Edwards, the general forum moderator. If you have any questions about permanent spells feel free to post here, but remember that everything on this thread is from the old version of magic (which is 90% the same, but cleaned up a lot now). Maybe a new thread is in order?

Feeling like an ass,
Jake

[Bankuei]

Brief note into the spell cancelling "out"...

I'm really fond of this, as it can be a great kickoff point for many stories, ranging from, "For a year and a day, you must never sleep in the same bed twice", to "Remain encased in stone, until the sky burns" type prophecy(which of course has to take serious chance of occuring).

My general rule in games is that I measure the prophecy by its likelyhood/frequency of occuring.

-Once a day:  "Before you eat the first meal of the day"
-Once a month: "On the first full moon when the birds sleep"
-Once a year:  "Upon the solstice, you must quench the blade in blood to renew its weavery"
-Once in a lifetime "When the sun eclipses and the rivers have dried"
-Once in a really long time..."When the last dragon awakes, and breaths his last breath..."

Generally, I look at the out as being seriously part of the magic and almost being a necessary condition of hardcore, longterm magic. Just something to keep in mind.

Chris

[Silanthous]

My take on permanant spells is the costs and effects should be decided between you and the seneshal. For instance, lets say i'm makeing animate stone gargoyles to guard my library, they will never leave it, only protect it and me when in it. perhaps when making this spell i can merely use a duration variable of 4 or 5 that make sit perminant without cost beyond the increased CTN. For spells that affect general areas or other people, i'm all for 1 dice per vagrary levelk, or all dice used to cast are lost, or somehting to that extent. just ask the seneshal.