Science fiction/ fantasy in the Metal Hurlant mold

[MPOSullivan]

Hey everyone.  "long time listener, first time caller."  I've been lurking this message board for the past month or two, reading all of the incredible insights that you guys have into the creation of a good role-playing game and i found that i just couldn't resist any longer.  For the past five or six years i have been working on the idea for a role-playing game in my head and have finally started the process of creating it.  

Far into the future, in the year 10,424, the human race has reached to the farthest reaches of the Known Universe and has created an empire called the Grand Covenance.  The Covenance, a society built upon utopian ideals, ensured peace and happinness for all of its inhabitants.  no matter the cost.  

Yet, the hands of the Covenance were tied.  Their laws, the Ashra, forbade the destruction of human life outside of defending its borders, even for criminal offenders.  The Imacularra, the ruler of the Covenance had no way of dispatching of the many thousands of political dissidents and criminals that would naturally manifest themselves in a society so huge.  

Then, a stroke of genius hit the Imacularra.  Four hundred years previous, when the Imacularra's father was the Imacularra, a new planet was discovered on the Fringe of the Known Universe.  This planet, an agricultural marvel, was quickly sighted for colonization.  Seventy five colony-craft, all bearing twenty thousand colonizers were sent to the planet and colonization began immediately.

A week after the last ship arrived on-planet, something started to happen.  The atmosphere of the planet turned a severe purple and yellow and twisted and turned like a tumultuous sea.  Communications systems and even the most telepaths that the Covenance had nurtured could not break through to the planet's surface.  rescue ships and exploration pods attempted to land on the planet, but she would not have it.  Anything trying to break through was broken into thousands of pieces.  

Two weeks passed and the atmosphere began to rellent.  the storm clouds cleared and communications were once again established.  except there was nobody to establish them with.

The planet had killed every last colonizer on the planet.  Over one million souls, extinguished.

The planet, named Bruise for the sickly severe purple and yellow color of its atmosphere, had been cordoned off.  no one was allowed within the solor system that bruise existed within, let alone near the planet.

The Imacularra, made paranoid by the many dissidents rising up on the Fringe had a place to send the criminals now.  The new sentence didn't break the precepts of the Ashra because the convicts wereen't killed.  they were simply sent to Bruise to die.  

Yet, the great Imacularra wanted to take even more from the people who would trouble him.  He decided that along with the sentencing of convicts to imprisonment on Bruise, he would take from them their past.  their memories of their mothers and fathers, their lovers, their children.  everything that defined them as a person was to be wiped away, leaving behind only one memory, selected by the court, to remind the convict of his previous life and why he should regret his actions against the Covenance.  

Okay, so, onto the nitty-gritty.  The game takes place on the planet brusie and PCs are criminals that have just been sentenced.  Gigantic prison-barges fly past the planet, firing the convicts onto it in little pods called Wombs.  The only thing that the Conenance gives the convicts to help them survive is a piece of nano-organic technology called a Skin.  the Skin is kind of like a still-suit from Dune in that it holds and recycles the water that the human body generates.  the difference is that it is also a piece of nano-ORGANIC technology and as such has refleces and molds itself to best fit its environment and stimuli.  Skins will develop into different molds or personalities to help best ensure its wearer's survival.  

The planet itself is like a jigsaw puzzle world, only the jigsaw puzzle pieces were taken from different sets.  Drastically different environments butt up against eachother.  Tundras are next to verdant fileds of grain, rivers run through long stretches of cracked earth, forrests and deserts exist right next to each other.

Also on the planet are monsters.  thousands of different kinds of monsters.  so numerous are the creatures that a compendium couldn't even begin to catalogue them.

I always like to tell my players a fun little fact about their sentencing to Bruise whenever i start up a new Epic (funny game-speak for campaign).  The avergae life-expectancy for a newly-arriving convict on Bruise is seven days.  

you are not expected to live longer than a week.

you are here to die.

but, then, if the players can hold together and survive for thise seven days, there is a whole planet at their disposal.  and there is something that the Covenance doesn't even really know about.  Convicts do survive.  as a matter of fact, over the past four hundred years of sentencing convicts to Bruise, societies have started popping up on-planet.  people have taken over the hulking husks of the colony crafts left behind by the colonizers those many years ago and have constructed city-states from them.  Re-discovered technology, or archeotech is scattered across the planet, waiting for the right person to find it.  There are even rumors that there was once an entirely different race from humans living on the planet, that died before humanity had even first travelled through the stars, and that their technology could be found.

and now the 'behind the curtain' stuff.  Bruise started out as a game i created when i was nineteen years old and had just read Dune for the gajillionth time and wanted a game that was like that.  savage and beatiful, those were my demands.  Later, as i retired the original bruise due to its intense amounts of suckiness, i began developing other games, sharpening my skills and my focus and improving my ability to create a feasible and interresting game world. at least i hope.  ;-)

so, within the past six months i found myself returning to this game from my childhood and looking at it with a whole new light.  out went the cheesy mad max stuff that was the original game and in went a sensibility inspired by european comics like the Metabarons and the Incal.  everything was to be absolutely beautiful in its over-the-top scale.  I started realising that the game had as many fantasy elements as it did science-fiction elements and i began to nurture that, popularizing sword-play over the use of laser guns, or bolt casters as they are called here.  societies and cultures began their rise and suddenly politics on Bruise became incredibly popular with my players as the saw these city-states and cabals deal with each other.  

and the premise?  well, everybody that has played the game always looks at it from a different light, but i always liked to say that it was about identity.  you have had your memories taken from you, the only thing that you are told about your past is what crime you were convicted of to get you sentenced to die on Bruise and one thing to remind you of why you should miss where you came from.  So are you the person that you were told you are as you take your first steps out of the Womb and discover this new deadly life waiting for you on this planet you are imprisoned on?  Will you murder again simply because you ar told that you are a murderer?  do you continue to steal because you've been told that you once did that in the past?

basically, i'm writing this little thing here as a germination, to see if people on the board are interrested in hearing more abuot my little game world and what i have to offer.  i mean, do you guys think that this is something that is needed out there in the gaming public?  some weird little schizophrenic game about star-spanning empires, cities within starships, living clothing, sword fights with giant beetles, hermaphrodites with psionic abilities and other such insanities?  or am i simply being to self-important?  I have lots of stuff that i want to discuss and need some help with on the game, but if the basic ideas behind it don't even walk the walk, how can i expect to get to talking the talk?  insight, examples of other games in a similar vein and other lovely things that you people do would be marvelous.

thanks in advance for the attention!

laters,

   -michael

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Michael,

And welcome! I'm glad this is the kind of place where you feel comfortable presenting your stuff.

Let's see. The first thing, right off, is that I think it's great that a person begins the design process strictly with Color. Paul did this with Nicotine Girls (which I still insist should be fully developed); I actually did this with Trollbabe. "No matter what, must be beautiful, in that Hurlant sick-sexy way ..." works for me.

The second thing is that I'm seeing two things, from a player-activity point of view, is the priority "to survive" or to "know oneself"? This isn't a problem! I can think of lots of ways in which one of these reinforces the other and vice versa, as well as lots of ways in which one of these impedes the other, and vice versa. My question is, is the relationship between the two the "point" of play?

Third, I highly recommend checking out Le Mon Mouri, which I think is linked through the Resource Library (above). It's not the same thing you're describing at all ... but there are parallels that I think you'll spot.

Best,
Ron

[Valamir]

Hey Zath...you describe a really cool setting...is the world itself alive and conciously trying to kill visitors, or did the colonist just arrive at a bad time?

I'm really big on capturing the color in the actual game mechanics, so I think it's great that you have such a clear vision of the color and flavor of the world.  I'm definitely interested in seeing more about it.  Particularly how that one memory might incorporate itself as an actual mechanic.

[ks13]

Very cool! Keep the info flowing. I have never been much on sci-fi rpgs, but this is something that could see myself playing and really enjoying.

Could you expand on the bit about the world environments? What's the justification for the messed up jigsaw puzzle approach?

[MPOSullivan]

thanks for the encouraging remarks guys!  feels nice to have developers comment on your ideas.

okay, to answer some of the questions.  firstly, ron's since he did ask first.  

i wanted to really establish both the "survival" and "identity" fronts as directions that a player and his playing group could go in.  If some groups want to go completely with the survival end and have their players fight creature after creature and hunt down shelter so that they can live, that's fine.  If a group wants to just sit down and explore the meaning of identity with their characters and deconstruct themselves, then that's just as well.  both approaches are not only viable, but incredibly fun.  I prefer a middle ground when running games though.  

When i first sat down to work on the basic concepts behind Bruise, one of the things that i wanted to do with it was make Bruise the kind of game people play when they get so tired of the two-dimensionality of DnD that they think they're going to bleed from the eyes.  Players still want the action and adventure that they got from DnD, but they also want to be able to play in a game that encourages character growth and storytelling. I wanted the game to be easily aproachable and fun, but with plenty of depth, detail and beauty.  I'm not to versed in the GNS jargon just yet, but i would say that the game is halfway between Narrativist and Gamist, with very little in the way of Simulationsist.  just like you said "the hurlant sick-sexy way" is the direction for this.  violent and epic in scale, but with character at the center.

also, wasn't able to find anything about le mon mouri in the resources library.  if you could dig up a link, that would be a marvel.  

and Valamir brings up a nice point.  While creating the game i wanted to be sure to seed so many different plot points the players and Director (game-speak for GM) could explore that would ensure there wouldn't be anyone out there saying "i can't think of anything to do with this game!"  When i did this i conciously didn't anser some of them, one of those being the 'sentience' of the planet.  

and since you brought up mechanics, i might as well broach the basics of it with you guys.  i've also worked out a basic gaming system for use with the game.  it's actually the same one as another game i'm working on with another friend of mine.  Hi Erik!  But with a couple of snags that we recently ran into with that as well as a desire to play with a different set of toys, i blew the dust off of this one and took my dice convention and brought it over here.  and since we're all developers here, i can trust you all not steal my system, right?  and for the lurkers that are untrustworthy, it's already copyrighted, so ;-P.

alright, the dice mechanics uses d6, mainly because it's easy to find those.  i don't like making players use weird dice like d12s or something like that.  makes me feel like a bastard.  anyways, characters have both attributes and skills, attributes rated from 1-4 for beginning characters and skills rated from 0-4.  whenever a character attempts to accomplish an action, he rolls as many d6s as the appropriate attribute and skill are ranked in.

example:  jimmy is trying to punch somebody.  his Reflexes are a 2 and his fighting is a 2.  he rolls four dice.

the total of the dice are cumulated and compared to a difficulty number, or Target.  for each dice that comes face up with a six, a new dice is rolled into the pool of dice.  if that new dice also comes up a six, another dice is added until there are no more sixes rolled.

example:  jimmy rolls four dice, gettting 2,3,5,6.  for the 6, he rolls another dice and gets a 3.  the total of his rolls of 2,3,3,5,6 is 19.  Jimmy's Target is a 10.  Jimmy is succesful.

this is where i had my stroke of genius or something like that when creating the dice mechanic.  so many systems with a attribute+skill v diff dice mechanic always used heavy math to figure out by what degree there was success or failure.  when i originally created this system, it was for a cyberpunk-style action movie role-playing game, so i wanted something fluid and cinematic.  so i decided that whenever a character rolled his dice, he would figure out how many of those dice are nessecarry to meet or beat the target and any dice left over translate into cinematic point, or Cins.  the Cins would not only gauge the success of the action, but the more Cins scored, the more the player could take over the narration of the game for that one action and describe the effect/outcome.  This caps out at 7 Cins, or Seven Deadly Cins, the cheeky bastard Erik that came up with that rule.  When 7 Cins are reached, the best possible outcome happens and the player takes complete control of the description of the action and guides it alone.  

i figured this mechanic would allow players of bruise to do the truly weird shit that they do in whacky european sci-fi comics with no real problem, as well as enforce the grand scope of the game.  

Example:  jimmy rolled 2,3,3,5,6, totalling 19.  However, his target was only 10, for which he only needed two of the dice, the 5 and 6.  the remaining three dice become Cins and Jimmy succeeds with 3 Cins.  

what do you guys think of the mechanic?  too much numbers?  too much player control (odd crowd for that question... ;-) ?

wow... i'm long-winded.

well, i'm going to jet for now.  might be online later tonight and bring you guys some more stuff about the game.  i would raelly like to go over the entire thing with you guys, from design up through what venue i should publish in.

laters!

   -michael

[MPOSullivan]

uh-oh, one more question while i was writing!

the reason for the planet having such a diverse landscape is really more for color and flavor than for anything else.  i wanted the planet to be so savage an unreal and i thought the easiest way to communicate this to players would be to have a world so schizophrenic that it would barely pay attention to science.  while the northern and southern tips of the planet are the frozen parts, the shifts between climates are so severe that a person could almost literally stand on the border between two climatic regions.  this falls into the same category as "questions posed with no aswers".  i've had players come up with plenty of different theories as to why the planet is like it is, but i haven't answered any of them because i like the sense of mystery and fear.  

laters!

   -michael

[Valamir]

That mechanic sounds pretty slick.  Maybe some of our resident math heads will run the odds on rolling multiple Cins for a given "average" check to make sure it works out well.  

You should make sure to have plenty of examples of Cin use in the game.  You might also want to check out Brave New World which used Raises to activate various stunts.  You could do the same thing with Cins.  For instance in BNW if you hit someone with a flame blast you'd do damage.  If you hit someone plus got a raise you could use that raise to not just do damage but actually set the target on fire.  With the appropriate gun tricks you could change the hitlocation or do reduced damage (wound instead of kill) by spending Raises.  You could use similiar things to spend Cin on (powering crazy martial arts moves, or jury rigged technology) thereby avoiding alot of rules crunchiness.  Everything is powered by Cin...

As for keeping the world vague.  Excellent.  Nothing ruins the sense of wonder than for players who've read all the source books to try and play characters who don't have a clue.  Make sure you sprinkle the rules with a whole mess of "theories" that different NPCs or groups have as to why the world is the way it is.  Theories that are totally incompatable.  Certain groups trying to fight or protect themselves who believe in a certain theory would then seem like total wackos to others who figure its something different.  Great fun, when the player's realize THEY'RE the wackos...

I look forward to more.

[Evan Waters]

I'll admit that I'm more familiar with the movie HEAVY METAL than with its comic inspiration, and for that feel I just use SENZAR...

But in all seriousness this is a good idea. I like the central dice mechanic and the "Cins" option- it's distinctive, but not so funky as to make probabilities difficult. Also reminds me of the "Column Shift" effect in MEGS, and you're going for a heroic feel, so good.

I agree that the setting ought to be vague. It makes genre-blending easier and would also be useful in publishing the product (however you do that)- instead of having to cordon off all the "Secret GM info" you can just leave the important secret stuff up to the individual GM, while still giving him a framework for a setting. Maybe you could expand on the idea of HACKMASTER's "Gaming preserves"- draw a map and leave big areas cordoned off with "you decide what goes here." The kind of game you're describing would be a lot more about the feel than the concrete setting anyway- after all METAL HURLANT has no set setting, more of an "attitude."

[Ron Edwards]

Hey there,

I'd like to emphasize that your dichotomy of "fight to survive" and "do nothing but de-construct self" is actually nothing like what I was proposing that you consider. I've written a Rather Big essay about how the means and goals of role-playing actually cover a much wider range of concepts, including some in which conflict (e.g. fighting) make make stories, and that stories are perhaps more than navel-gazing and not-fighting.

Check out "GNS and related matters" in the Articles section if you're interested.

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

Hmm. So if I get 2 Cins for one roll, and you get 4 for your roll, how are we differently empowered? Do you have a list of what the different amounts allow? I can see them being used for stuff like Ralph has; crunchy Sim stuff. But as for director stance, how do you make levels of this?

Mike

[MPOSullivan]

basically, the cin points work like this:

Zero Cins: Just barely successful.  You have succeeded by the skin of your teeth.
One Cins: A marginal success.  None too graceful or beautiful, but a success none the less.  
Two Cins: A complete success.  There is no doubt that you have pulled off exactly what you wanted, but there are very few frills to it.
Three Cins: Above average success.  Not only have you done what you attempted, but you also complete it with some flair and personality.
Four Cins: Exceptional success.  Your display of natural skill and finesse impresses all that see you.  
Five Cins: Phenomenal success.  Your ability to accomplish this feat is on full display.
Six Cins: Astounding success.  You complete the action with mind-blowing deftness and acuity.
Seven Cins: Mythical success.  Your ability to do this action is so incredible that you seem to slip away from the physics of the real world and accomplish the impossible. (see Seven Deadly Cins)

and seven deadly cins allows the player to accomplish something so drastic and spectacular that it's astounding.  

and ron, the articles for your GNS stuff are showing a dead link for me, so i can't really research what you're referring to.  could someone give me a short and sweet version so i can give you a better answer?  what exactlydo you mean by the "point of the game"?  are you talking about player-scharacter goals?  metaplot?  or the kind of narrative i hope to create within the game?  i'm a little lost... ;-(

laters!

[Mike Holmes]

Um, I thought there was supposed to be Director Stance power garnered for Cins. All I see is the standard progression of description for a success margin. What am I missing?

Mike

[MPOSullivan]

oop, yeah, sorry.  been a late couple of nights.  ;-)

basically, the higher the cins on a given roll, the more the player will be able to personally describe the outcome of events.  the rule of thumb is at four Cins, the director normally lets the player take over and, just as long as the player follows the loose "success" structure for rolls, then he can describe the action to his heart's content.  Cins are also a measure of how purely cinematic an action looks.  While a four Cin action and a six cin action are both player controlled narratively speaking, the six cin action should be described with more flourish and pinache (sp?) than the four cin action.  here's a little example section that i've started concocting for my other game using the same system.  hopefully it clears things up a little.

CLIFFHANGER: an example of Cinematic Points in action

Maximus has got nowhere left to turn.  He’s standing on the 58th floor of Atlas Biotechnical Plaza, a Groundscraper whose bottom hangs over a thousand feet off of the ground level of Neon City.  Behind him is a squad of security agents and in front of him is an open window and an open window of the Groundscraper on the opposite side of this one, a distance away that right now seems would be measured in kilometers.  With possible death on one side and definite incarceration on the other, Maximus gets a running start and makes for the open window, attempting to clear the gap.  Michael, the player controlling Maximus, kisses his dice and hopes lady luck is on his side as he rolls his dice and compares the total to his Target.
Zero Cins: Maximus leaps through the air, grunting as he jumps from the window.  He falls just short of covering the distance and gracelessly reaches out and catches the lip of the window ledge he was leaping for.  He hangs form the ledge and feels the cold wind whip about him as he tries to lift himself up into the window.
One Cin: Maximus ignores the age-old axiom ‘don’t look down’ as he jumps the gap between the two buildings and sees the chasm that stretches to near infinity underneath him.  Realizing that if he doesn’t make this he’s going to be a rather large stain on midtown, Maximus pushes all of his weight forward and winds up falling through the window in the opposite building hard, sliding across the tile floor on his shoulder.  He picks himself up and continues to run, adrenaline coursing through his veins.
Two Cins: With a quick, five step running start, Maximus pushes himself through the window and out into the air.  He closes his eyes for just long enough to get over the majority of the gap and opens them in just enough time to land on his feet on the hard tile floor of the building opposite the one he was just in and to continue running.
Three Cins: Maximus turns his head and gives the security agents a quick wink and a nod as he throws himself out of the window and courses through the air, arms outstretched and legs straight back.  He lands in the opposite building without so much as a scratch and continues on his way, smiling to himself.
Four Cins: “See you on the other side,” Maximus says to the security guards as they stand by, mouth agape and watch their quarry run up to the open window and leap out into the open air.  He flies through the air, the cool wind soothing his fear away, and lands gracefully on his feet on the hard tile floor of the building opposite the one he was just in.
Five Cins:
Six Cins:
Seven Deadly Cins: Maximus takes a deep breath and runs for the window, pushing himself off the ledge with great force.  He seems to hang in the air for a moment as he gracefully soars from one building to the other.  He lands with his open palms on the railing of the window of the opposite building, doing a handstand.  He then curls up into a ball and does a roll into room with the tile floor, springing up from the roll and directly into a sprint, turning just long enough to give the security agents gathering in the window that he just leapt from a devious smile.

so, long story short, yes the system does allow for player narration, normally starting at about four cins or so.  it's also a system that (hopefully) encourages players to be more descriptive in their actions and to bring across a more adventurous and cinematic side of themselves to their gaming.  


bedtime for mikey.  have a job interview tomorrow.  hope i cleared things up a little.  laters!

   -m

[MPOSullivan]

okay, ron, i think i understand what you were asking me now.  were you asking if the dichotomy  and the interaction between the two fronts of "survival" and "self-discovrey" were the center of conflict and drama?  like, does a character have to decide which is more important, the chance to trully discover one's self or the chance to survive on a world that is out to kill them.

if so then i would say you are on the right trail.  i'm still doing a little trail-blazing of my own within the game concepts and such, but those are both elements that i feel are the core of the game.  I feel some characters will want to go the survivalist route, doing anything to ensure their own life's extended lifespan, while others will want to search for who they are.  really, the big conflicts i see in the characters in this game do come out of the need to survive and the desire to establish an identity.  

then again, i could be rambling because it's two-thirty in the a.m.

laters!

   -m