Character Creation pool

[Christoffer Lernö]

This comes from my Skills and yet not thread. I thought it would be useful to look at it separately.

How does it work, what do I mean by Character Creation pool. Well look at Hero Wars: One option of making characters is to define abilities as you go along.

What if we extend that idea and make it the default character creation method. Let's say you get 10 abilities or whatever at creation. Of course you can define some and all of them at creation. It doesn't matter you will get more points.

The last is the essence of my idea. You can declare negative abilities "can't swim", "can't x", "bad at x", "wouldn't ever try x"

If you take a negative ability you gain a point to your Character Creation Pool. The only rule is that you can't change things that already has been established. So if you have been swimming normally in the last adventure you can't in the following session declare that you can't swim. The same rule naturally applies for abilities.

So far this could apply to Ygg. If one wants to go further I was thinking along these lines:

You could go further but that might be a little more appropriate for a different game. You could build a whole currency around this revealing flaws and skills. There could be "major revelations" a player could declare to get a boost to his character creation pool. This isn't unlike what you would do in a game of Champions to explain boosts of power.

Anyway, this method of adding background as one goes along is not a new one, but formalizing it is. Hopefully it's a way to cement abilities and disadvantages into the character. One could couple this mechanism with others to encourage retconning the character. However, this more suitable for character exploration. In Ygg the characters start out more or less like tabula rasa and get described by their actions. A small touch of the character pool could add some fleshing out of the characters.

(More interesting however, would be to play a very character exploration type of game, preferably horror hehe, in which this mechanism was used to reveal the horrible secrets of the characters. The advantage of this technique is that it could be wrapped in a sim type of game. Of course, going all narrativist would be easier.)

[Christoffer Lernö]

Something just struck me. The mechanism of "character revelations" could actually be a viable thing for Ygg if I included competents/incompetents (see the idea by Walt in this thread). Competents could then be wandering plot devices, who's "character revelations" can even drive an adventure (running into old enemies and such). Just a sidenote.

[Mike Holmes]

Anyway, this method of adding background as one goes along is not a new one, but formalizing it is.

Nope, not new.

And whatever happened to Standard Fantasy, and mechanics that are fairly mainstream so as not to put off most gamers? Are those early design goals out the window, now? Jus curious.

Mike

[Le Joueur]

Anyway, this method of adding background as one goes along is not a new one, but formalizing it is.

Nope, not new.

And whatever happened to Standard Fantasy, and mechanics that are fairly mainstream so as not to put off most gamers? Are those early design goals out the window, now?

Since when it new an issue?

What's wrong with changing one's focus?  Are you creating a false dichomoty with poles like "Standard Fantasy" and "new?"  Isn't The Riddle of Steel an example of both?

Besides Mike, can you name any formalized "method of adding background as one goes along" that's old?  It may not be original or the very first time, but I hardly see this as either long in the tooth or worth deriding.  Obviously Pale Fire's goals have changed, but he seems to know what he wants now (a big improvement, I think); why question it?

Fang Langford

[Mike Holmes]

Obviously Pale Fire's goals have changed, but he seems to know what he wants now (a big improvement, I think); why question it?

New is not important. He brought it up, not I.

And what makes you think that he *now* knows what he wants? It seems to me that his goals have been a moving target from day one, and still are. If they weren't, I think that we'd have seen a game by now after all the posts, and all the discussion. More posting has gone into this system than any other system by a large margin. And still nothing.

You may have percieved a shift to a stable set of goals, but I'm not seeing it. Christoff?

Mike

[Le Joueur]

Obviously Pale Fire's goals have changed, but he seems to know what he wants now (a big improvement, I think); why question it?

New is not important. He brought it up, not I.

And what makes you think that he *now* knows what he wants?

What I was calling you for, Mike, is being hashed out over here, right now.  Is there any reason (outside of impatience) you have for making a big deal out of a change in design scheme or the fact that this kind of reaction is starting to have the side effect of causing people to apologize for things they needn't?

Fang Langford

[Mike Holmes]

What I was calling you for, Mike, is being hashed out over here, right now.  Is there any reason (outside of impatience) you have for making a big deal out of a change in design scheme or the fact that this kind of reaction is starting to have the side effect of causing people to apologize for things they needn't?

Nope, just impatience. That and feeling that we're being used. That excellent resources are going down the hole chasing something that is not likely to ever be useful in any substantive way. Even the discussions on the game don't seem to produce any new thought at all. From what I can see, Christoff has just arrived at where we told him he should be at many, many months ago. I'd have respected him as a designer more if he'd made a Heartbreaker and stuck to his guns. Instead of taking all this time to just get to the point where he believes what we've been telling him all along.

If anyone is apollogizing for my behavior, they shouldn't. If anyone has a problem with my behavior, I'd appreciate it if they would let me know directly. I amswer my PMs promptly. Some do speak with me directly, and I respect them for it. But now we've talked far too much about me, which is not what this thread is about.

What about Christoff's design? Does he have an opinion? Am I wrong in assuming that he's continuing to shift targets? Does he have a set goal and vision for design now? Is he going to write a game on the subjects he lists above, or is he going to just change the subject yet again? I'd like to hear from him. Can he or anyone else show me that this isn't just the latest shift in an endless series of shifts?

Mike

[Christoffer Lernö]

Jesus Christ did this turn into an insane rant all of a sudden. Last night there was only your two first comments, and I thought there was no real need to comment on it. I was thinking of maybe saying that I felt there was no harm done with your first posting Mike, but I thought - "hey, I can write that when I have something else to say too"

Mike, to answer your question: Standard Fantasy is there still. What I'm trying to do is to add some unorthodox techniques to improve places where old style sim traditionally is very weak. The goal is still to make it look very approachable in the old basic D&D kind of way... on the surface.

Obviously the mechanic I describe above isn't pure old school sim.

I'm posting this because

1) Maybe someone will read it and be inspired themselves for some other system.

2) I'm exploring the limits of the technique, so I know how it can be used and how it might be used in different ways.

After I'm done figuring out what I can get from it, I then think: ok, this is the ways I can mold it for a system, is any of these ways appropriate for my system. If not I throw it out.

As for the character pool, I'm far from sure it fits BUT before I throw it away, I want to explore the idea. Maybe I have use for it later in some other game or in some other form.

If you only want to read stuff that's "in the game" go and read threads like "Ygg right now" (second part here).

And finally, I am honestly a little confused how this is "using you" I mean posting ideas I have. Isn't that how designs start out?

P.S. Can we please get back on topic now? Doesn't anyone have any comment on the REAL topic of this thread?

[Mike Holmes]

My apologies for derailing the thead.

Christoff says he has a direction. Cool. I must be mistaken, then. Apollogies for that as well. Please, carry on.

Mike