Group Hug...why do we love (and play) TROS?

[Thirsty Viking]

The one thing that turned me off a little from the book was the one or two gratuitous scantilly-clad female characters.  Luckily, the superb content of the book, and the other good illustrations sort of negated that.

2 things:  
1 your husband is a lucky man.
2 dang it, i missed the gratuitous scantilly-clad female charachters.  I was too busy reading the book.   I'll have to go back..  maybe they were in the section on AHR.  I remember pleasure slaves in the capital...  they should be scantilly-clad  both male and female.

Page 15..   not really..
page 34 ...  well she is standing next to the dancing skill
wouldn't call the one on 67 gratuitous
the swordwoman on 74 has more on than many of the males

ok the one on page 90  is the first one that qualifies,  she's topless, but her arm is in the way.
on 130  we have a woman suffering under a conquer spell i guess.. toples but braids hide
nude/topless druidess on 136..casting ritual spell in stonehenge at night
205 ... is that a chainmail bikini?
208 is the woman dead by arrow in some sort of haltar top. her 2nd appearance
Along the way were women in "proper Dreses" full armor, and many other not scantilly clad appearances.

I guess your aiming at the three topless ones.  two with 1/2 page+ pics.  there was at least one other in low cut "Scale Breast Plate"  looked like an armored girdle.  that was amusing...

I guess it's only fair though.  there were many topless men  some that look like conan the barbarian wearing nothing but a loin cloth.

It's a fantasy game... a lot of reality in having one of the sexily clad women  dead of an arrow though.  hmmm  i wonder if a topless swordswoman with beauty of ages would cause her opponent men to be distracted and lose CP dice...  

Sorry  it's late.. time for me to go to bed.

[Claymore]

Claymore wrote:
Jake, when will Beasts and Men be solicited through game trader?



Like I said...unnoficially, Feb or March...

Its not that we can't get it out sooner, but distributors have this whole 4-month waiting thing. Grrrr.

Jake

I don't understand this. The book doesn't need to be completed four months in advance, just solicated 3-4 months in advance. If your target date date was December, you would of needed to get the infomation in by late August/early September. If you didn't realize that, it should be enough time to get into the next Game Trader soliciting for January, or Febuary at the latest. This would be ideal as the typical buyer has all of his or her "Christmas" money to spend. All you need is a stock number and price (cover is great but not absolutely necessary) If you are having any problems I know the buyer personally, drop me a line. I also know a company that handles distribution directly for smaller press companies by the name of Unicorn.

Claymore

[Bob Richter]

The one thing that turned me off a little from the book was the one or two gratuitous scantilly-clad female characters.  Luckily, the superb content of the book, and the other good illustrations sort of negated that.

I didn't get irked by the numerous (and gratuitous) scantily clad male characters in the book. I don't see how you have any right to be offended over the other. :)

[qirien]

"I didn't get irked by the numerous (and gratuitous) scantily clad male characters in the book."

Good for you.  But, for the record, I didn't really like those, either.  :-)  I mean, I guess it's fine if someone has a *reason* for being scantily-clad, ie, they're a barbarian from a hot climate, they're a cabaret dancer, etc.  I guess that's what I mean by "gratuitous" - there's no apparent reason for their attire, except to be provacative to the readers.  Anyway, you don't have to agree with me, but I do reserve the right to be offended at whatever I want.  :-)

But, there's just no way that any one would voluntarily wear a chainmail bikini for fighting.  I just can't believe that.  Of course, if someone wore clothes like that in a game I was GMing, I would probably give them social penalties (or bonuses) depending on the company . . . bwah ha ha ha!

Anyway, like I said, it wasn't really a big deal, but it did make me go, "huh, that's pretty dumb and unrealistic" once or twice.  Since I thought maybe no one had ever said anything about this before, I thought it would be good if people knew that some people feel that way.  Don't worry; I still love tRoS! :-)

[Thirsty Viking]

Not sure this belongs here,  but didn't want to start a new thread.   They aren't in the forum here yet.   but We did charachter creation tonight after wrapping up the module for the Iron Kingdoms.   I knew i was spending too much energy on the combat side of TROS.   the group I've named the system breakers,   Love the combat system so much... 5 of the 7 have made MAGES

lol,   we have to almost beg someone to play the mage.   In the Iron Kingdoms game...  I am the only mage.    2nd level mage, 2nd level cleric, 1st level fighter.  I wear platemail and my staff is a Great AXE.  
As a Dwarf,  the only party member with more hit point,  is my in game wife,  the dwarven cleric...   she is 1 level higher.

Not So in TROS.   It seems from the SA's   that we have a coven going to war with the Satyr Race.  They are getting help from a bishop in the Church of the three gods made one(if i got that right)  and an escaped pleasure slave from AHR?   ok  you got me there...  I've got no clue on how she fits in.

Brief charachter descriptions...   DM from last campaign playing a gifted hafling (his mother was involved with a seelie elf,  a Satyr cast glamor on himself to impersonate the elf and impregnated her.   When it turned out the Elf's child was Half satyr,   they were permanantly split.  Knowing too much about his past...  The Halflinf  is looking forward to the day when he can say  "Hello! my name is .........  You raped my mother, Prepare to Die."    I guess i'll make it a 6 fingered Satyr.  After the trauma of growing up half satyr in a human community...   Killing DAD  isn't enough,  all satyrs must Die.  This conflicts beautifully with his conscience.   And in the impossible quest Category...  He seeks for the seelie elf to accept him as his son...  His signature Formalized spell?  To make the Target charachter act as a magnet for vermin class creatures for a minute per success.   In line of sight of the target, fleas and ticks, lice, and mosquitos will travel at 10y a second to gather on the target.  Spell of three CTN 8.   As a half-satyr..  naturally he took lecherous.

A scottich Druid from a wee Glen hidden deep in a forrest.  love of glen, Faith that The Land provides all,  and A burning Desire to fill in the Gaps in his knowledge left by the secluded upbringing in the glen.  He has an undergrowth/vines grow/entagle spell of three, slowing travel to a crawl across a 200 foot square piece of ground.  Also dabbles as an herbalist naturally.

A wizard who is intent on learning the hidden secrets in magic, and the ultimate secret of magic  his destiny is to have his magic determine the fate of a kingdom.  

A gifted Bookworm who was raised by monks he has just discovered in old records  that he was only survivor from the destruction of his village...   He searches for the rest of the truth, Drive to avenge his village,  And a burning desire to not be powerless against the world.   This charachter took the intriguing step of starting with F in proficencies and Vaguaries  (NO TRAINING).

Another mage still being born.   Destined to marry the daughter of a king.  His drive,  To build a new city where mages and common folk prosper together.

The female pleasure slave from AHR is destined to become the heir to a kingdom.  Hmm  we have the destiny marry the daughter of a king on another charachter.....  She has NO memory of her life before AHR.  Beauty of the Ages,   Not gifted...(as a mage anyways)   this charachter is only roughed out,  but it is better than the tantric wizardess the player almost made,  This gaming store isn't the place for the ritualized gestures she was going to have to make to cast her spells.  The half-satyr was disappointed by her change direction, but not too much.

Lastly the bishop of the church,   Youngest son of a landed nobleman.. he didn't want to be a soldier, so daddy bought him a nice cushy job. as a landed bishop.   this charachter is only roughed out slightly...   this player is the only one who missed jakes demo...  and the only one who hasn't bought the book yet.  Everyone else in group bought book in the last month afterJakes demo.  the store has reordered 3 times,  only has one on shelf and I am running an open demo tonight to try and move it.

Well thats my group,  6 people that played in Jakes demo at the store, or watched parts of it.  + 1 more.  You know the game is a hit,  when domestic partners get two copies of the rule book so they don't need to share.  Way to go JAKE.

[Sykora]

Where did I learn of TRoS?

Well, you see, I was looking for Russian porn...

[Jake Norwood]

Where did I learn of TRoS?

Well, you see, I was looking for Russian porn...

ROTFLOL!!!

Quote:

Claymore wrote:
Jake, when will Beasts and Men be solicited through game trader?



Like I said...unnoficially, Feb or March...

Its not that we can't get it out sooner, but distributors have this whole 4-month waiting thing. Grrrr.

Jake




I don't understand this. The book doesn't need to be completed four months in advance, just solicated 3-4 months in advance. If your target date date was December, you would of needed to get the infomation in by late August/early September. If you didn't realize that, it should be enough time to get into the next Game Trader soliciting for January, or Febuary at the latest. This would be ideal as the typical buyer has all of his or her "Christmas" money to spend. All you need is a stock number and price (cover is great but not absolutely necessary) If you are having any problems I know the buyer personally, drop me a line. I also know a company that handles distribution directly for smaller press companies by the name of Unicorn.

Claymore

Au contraire...

Alliance and other major distributors require 4 months advance notice of the release of a book or they won't carry it. That's why even though I had several hundred copies of TROS sitting in my back room in March the book wasn't "officially" realeased until the last day of July. Do I think it's a dumb and backwards system? Yeah. Am I a slave to the distributors on this one? Aren't we all.

The soonest I could have it out would be Feb 5th according to those rules.

What I probably will do is make OBAM available to "loyal" stores and internet customers as soon as its off the presses. I'm a small enough company to get away with that.

qirien wrote:
The one thing that turned me off a little from the book was the one or two gratuitous scantilly-clad female characters. Luckily, the superb content of the book, and the other good illustrations sort of negated that.

Yeah, when we put together TROS we had this "art on every 2-page spread" thing going on. Looking at other books now, it's about 3 times as much art as anywhere else...but we weren't thinking along those lines. Most of the "scantily clad women" are partially justified...and I did try to put them all into the sorcery section (sorcerers are a bit strange, after all).

The girl in the chainmail bikini in the equipment section...heh, well, I drew that, and I figued "what's a fantasy book without a chainmail bikini?" My inspiration was Larry Elmore--when I was writing TROS my mind was heavily wrapped up by his images of "beautiful landscapes, beautiful women, and ugly little half-siehe guys." One, "waiting for ______" (I forget who they were waiting for) really struck me as having a feel that I wanted.

OTOH, the next page has the realistic take on wearing a halter into battle: an arrow...

We've really refined the kind of art we're looking for now, though, so expect high quality and more focus in our future publications. And probably less half-naked women (though it'll be hard convincing Ben Moore, our "staff artist" of that...

Jake

[Bob Richter]

[quote="qirien]Good for you.  But, for the record, I didn't really like those, either.  :-)  I mean, I guess it's fine if someone has a *reason* for being scantily-clad, ie, they're a barbarian from a hot climate, they're a cabaret dancer, etc.  I guess that's what I mean by "gratuitous" - there's no apparent reason for their attire, except to be provacative to the readers.  Anyway, you don't have to agree with me, but I do reserve the right to be offended at whatever I want.  :-)

But, there's just no way that any one would voluntarily wear a chainmail bikini for fighting.  I just can't believe that.  Of course, if someone wore clothes like that in a game I was GMing, I would probably give them social penalties (or bonuses) depending on the company . . . bwah ha ha ha!

Anyway, like I said, it wasn't really a big deal, but it did make me go, "huh, that's pretty dumb and unrealistic" once or twice.  Since I thought maybe no one had ever said anything about this before, I thought it would be good if people knew that some people feel that way.  Don't worry; I still love tRoS! :-)[/quote]

There's no way anyone would voluntarily wear a chainmail bikini for ANYTHING. Well, except the occasional scifi/fantasy gaming con. I've seem them there, at least. :)

I've always wondered why everyone gets so hung up over art. Even if there's art on every two-page spread, it's just there to set the mood. It's not really CONTENT (except in a few bizarre cases.)

Besides, just because there's no APPARENT reason for someone to be underdressed doen't mean there's NO reason. For instance, perhaps the chainmail bikini girl is trying to seduce Jake or something. :)

So while you can reserve the right to be offended at anything, I reserve the right to shake my head sadly. :)

As for worrying about whether or not you love TRoS...the truth is, the more you love it, the louder you complain. Particularly because Jake listens.

[Brian Leybourne]

Better question...  when can i send a paypal payment to Driftwood Publishing for you to ship me a copy :-)  I'd want it signed by you and brian... but i think i remember he lives in newzealand or austrailia or somewhere...  lol   not good.   Maybe i can get him to sign it at gencon next year.

Wow.. err, hey that's pretty cool! :-)

Well, I certainly HOPE to make GenCon next year. I was going to be in the Middle East at that time, but since all the crap that's been going on, my wife and I are thinking Europe instead (big bombs landing on us would ruin our holiday, methinks). I understand that cross-fares Europe-US are not too bad, so it may well be possible.

On the other hand, if you're serious that you want me to sign it (which is damn cool, I must say) then you could probably ask Jake to ship it to me instead of to you, that way I can sign it and ship it on.

Brian.

[Brian Leybourne]

The one thing that turned me off a little from the book was the one or two gratuitous scantilly-clad female characters.  Luckily, the superb content of the book, and the other good illustrations sort of negated that.

Heh.

Much as I hate to come across all sexist, RPG's (and hell, fantasy in general) pretty much traditionally features scantily-clad women.

Why? Because 95% of the audience are/were guys, and probably a good 70%-80% of THOSE are in the 15-30 age category.

What draws THAT audience in? I probably don't have to paint you a picture.

And if I did, it would probably be a scantily-clad woman *grin*.

Is it right? Well, not necessarily, and it's certainly true that these days there are a lot more women in the RPG hobby (and thus by extension, "fantasy in general" - I may have cause and effect mixed there, but I doubt it), but traditions are damn tricky to shift.

Hell, I don't mind admitting that I enjoy a good cheesecake picture now and then. I would never buy a product BECAUSE of its art, but I wouldn't NOT buy one because of its art either.

Companies like Avalanch press, however, are trying too hard and I must admit I have never picked up one of their books on principle. I figure that if you have to splash pictures like across your covers, then the content of your books probably sucks so much you figured cheesecake was the only way they would sell.

Here's an interesting article from rpg.net which is kind of on this topic (the first section, anyway):
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/nogood13sep02.html

Brian.

[qaphsiel]

I played at Origins (ran the sorcerer character). I really liked the magic system for one. Second, the game and system was clearly well thought out.

The other thing that hooked me was how well you ran the game (not specifically TROS, but more generically). You ran a great game, which is saying something under convention circumstances!

Lastly, I want to mention that you actually have a GOOD index in your book and almost the last thing in the book. Thank you!

The state of indices in most RPG books is pathetic. Quite a few don't have one. Most of the ones that do, have lame ones. And perhaps the worse offence (to me at least) is sticking it 20+ pages from the end of the book! (Think the DnD3E Player's Handbook [which is in my closet now and not on my shelf]. Apparently the 2nd printing has even more crap after the index.) What's the point of the index if I have to know the friggin' page of the index???

Okay, 'nuff ranting for now!


Cary

[Jake Norwood]

Lastly, I want to mention that you actually have a GOOD index in your book and almost the last thing in the book. Thank you!

Thank my wife, who spent days on end going over every last page of the book and assembled that index "by hand." There's a few "easter eggs" in there, like a talking cricket...

Jake