High school cheerleading squad (Sweet Valley High style)

[Stuart DJ Purdie]

Well, after an interesting discussion with a friend, during which the subject of RPG's came up, she mentioned that she was not aware of any RPG's that interested her, in terms of setting or subject matter.  Some discussion later, I suggested a "Sweet Valley High" RPG.  Well, the moment the words were out of my mouth, I had 4 players raring to go.

Only problem:  No such RPG exists yet, as far as I can find.  Any pointers to an RPG bibiography would be much appreciated.

My first draft is up at http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~spurdie/rpg/index.html.

I'm especially interesting if people think that either the points of contact are too high at any point, or if the handling time for the system is too great.

I keep switching between the stats as written, and mergeing Look and Style, and adding a stat dealing with the sublte art of sarcasm.  Any opinions on that matter (Or name for it)?

[Andrew Martin]

Hi, Stuart. It's interesting. I'd like to suggest that as your players seem to have read the books and want to play, I think that they would want the game play to be like a story. So instead of using a simulation approach, that rewards gamist character design, I'd go for a narrative story system.

I'm very tempted to suggest using Zac's Shadows, because it's so rules light, easy to play (mechanically speaking), and has two interesting outcomes for each rolls, so there's no need to worry about "Failure" stopping play.

I keep switching between the stats as written, and mergeing Look and Style, and adding a stat dealing with the sublte art of sarcasm. Any opinions on that matter (Or name for it)?

Alternatively, if description and values are to be important, I'd suggest using a version of The Pool, but using playing cards. That way, whatever the players come up with as being important to the the player about the character is OK. And this would make it easier to come up relationships that form during a session between PC and NPCs.

Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be totally wrong about the desires of your players.

[contracycle]

Man, what is the source of this dramatic interest in high schools?  It baffles me.

Edit: this is a question, not sniping.

[Paganini]

I was going to suggest the Pool also (or Cornerstone... hehe *plug* hehe). I don't think Shadows would quite fit that setting. Also, for new players, more structure and some obvious-looking game elements (I.E., six sided dice, winning rolls to narrate) are desireable.

[ethan_greer]

Contracycle:
High-school might not seem terribly dramatic to an outside observer, but to the students, teenager/early adulthood can be (and often is) an extremely tumultuous time - dealing with the aftermath of puberty, loss of virginity, peer pressure, drinking and drugs, athletic competition, the prospect of the rest of your life after graduation, and whether or not you look good.  To a student, these things are all THE MOST IMPORTANT AND PROFOUND THINGS THAT HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE AND IT'S ALL ABOUT ME WHY GOD WHY???  That sort of thing.  :)  Which I could see being very dramatic.  Not my bag as far as gaming goes, but definitely dramatic.

And of course it's not just Sweet Valley stuff - there's also works of literature along the lines of Lord of the Flies (Goldman) and A Separate Peace (Knowles) as well as books in the vein of Judy Bloom and other authors.  I'm not real up on the subject because it doesn't lie in my areas of interest, but there's definitely a wide-ranging appeal.

Stuart:
I don't have much advice for you, but I can say that after glancing over your system, it looks to me like it would work fine.  Whether or not it is best suited to the genre depends largely on your approach to the genre and that of your players.  In any case, explore your options - the suggestions made by others strike me as being good ones.

[szilard]

Merging look and style isn't necessarily bad. If I am pegging the genre correctly, its often the case that a "hopeless" frumpy/nerdy type can get a makeover from the popular girl who "takes her under her wing" and become drop-dead gorgeous.

I'm actually curious as to the inclusion of Cheering as a stat. I'd imagine it as a sort of popularity contest in and of itself.

It might be worthwhile to give Popularity a Flaw, Asset, and Goal like the other stats. This could eliminate the need for the Sarcasm stat you were toying with.

the other Stuart

[Mike Holmes]

Interestingly, what I think you have here is a simulation of real life cheerleaders. Actually, I'm trying to be insulting by that statment, not to you, Stuart, but to cheerleaders. Let's assume that I'm way out of my depth with the subject area (I am), but I remember cheerleaders as souless bitches. Which your game seems well designed to support.

I think despite my biases, that I can make some general statements about the design. The goal of play is to get more popular. Sure, the reward can be used for moments of sincere soul searching, but then you're back to scratching for more popularity again. In a cycle that looks to have all the addictive elements to it that killing monsters in D&D has. It's worse than my problem with Sorcerer, but with the same solution. What I'd most want to see for a protagonist is for them to get out of the rat race for Populairity and realize that it's not important (just as I'd like to see Sorcerers quit practicing sorcery).

My sole experience with Sweet Valley High was from my brother. We were in our teens and on a family trip to Florida and had stopped to see some friends of my mother's on the way. Apparently the daughter of hte family had the entire series of books. Well, we only stayed one day, and my brother, bored, decided to start reading these books. As we were leaving, I looked at my brither and saw that he was very tired like he'd been up all night (which in fact he had). I asked what he had though of them. He said, that, they weren't that bad, because, they were light reads, and actually sorta addictive in a hypnotic fashion.

That and he mentioned that he had read through all of them, the entire series.

So, it's my uneducated opinion that the subject matter at hand is probably pretty light. But I'm also going to assume that they all had syrupy sweet endings as well. I'm guessing that they were akin in some ways to after school specials in that way. As such, there has to be a blatantly shining moral message about the importance of friends, honesty, hard work and close friends. Did I mention friends?

Anyhow, I see two routs. Keep the game as is, and have the message be that there are no good answers to be found in high school. I'd be good with that. Or, convert it to the dramatic version by including elements that drive towards a pulpy little moral message, say at the end of each hour long session of play.

So, good luck with it, I guess. Just make sure you know what you want out of the game.

Mike

[Stuart DJ Purdie]

Phewee!  Lots go go through.

Well, as an opening comment, let me say that this idea of an RPG is really popular.  I could have 7 players for this, of which 5 are new to RPGs entierly (In fact, most of those were previously hostile to RPGs).  That would be too many, but

Andrew:  Where to place what the players want is a very tricky issue.  All the discussion with the perspective players suggests that they want a Simulationist game.  I'm expecting to have to do some Drift in play, probably to the Nar side of things, but I think I aught to keep an open mind on that.

Contracycle, Ethan:  While Ethans points are good, what seems to be appealing to the potential players most is the superficiallity of the source material, and the escapism.  The idea of playing a size six, athletic and beutiful cheerleader seems to hold quite an alure for them, as does all the shopping and bitching.  In short, for this one, it's not dramatic interest that's being desired here, but rather escapism.

Stuart: Yeah, a makeover is a staple of the genre (generally inolving taking of glasses and letting the hair down).  Cheering is ment to be how good one is at cheerleading.  Thus, when it comes down to the ball game, the Cheering stats on either side will deterime who wins or loses the match. Because that's what's imporant.

I like the idea of Popularity having a Flaw and Asset descriptors.  I think a Goal is pretty self evident, however, unless I'm missing something.

Mike:  Yep, it's ment to about fairly soulless people.    The books are extremely light - although I'll know more tomorrow when I can pick up a few of them.  Your point about a protagonist getting out of the rat race is very insightful.  I'll have to put something in to allow that I think, and turn up the saccharine level.  The pulpy moral message sounds a good plan, I think.

Time for some more drafting.  I'll keep a copy of the first draft at http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~spurdie/rpg/cheer-v1.html
for history reasons.

It's an interesting experience, desgining a game 'to order', by the way.  It's quite different to being able to bake things for a long time, and tweak and test everything in advance.

[Jeph]

I like the idea of Popularity having a Flaw and Asset descriptors.  I think a Goal is pretty self evident, however, unless I'm missing something.

Not really.  Suppose a character named Rini. Rini is incredibly smart, but only average looking, and not great at cheerleading. Her Popularity is 12. Her Asset is that everyone is dependant upon her for homework help. Her Flaw is that she has to help everyone with homework. Her Goal is to be popular, but not because everyone needs her to do their homework. See?