Sorcerer - Priest

[ADGBoss]

I was brainstorming a bit and I was wondering about Sorcerer in a god heavy setting.  Something very Ancient Sumeria, Egypt, glorantha etc...

Now of course the game could be run in the traditional I have a demon method, but I was pondering (after watching Stargate last night) an optional approach.

Sorcerers are priests who bind a small amount of their god's or a god's energy to them.  Some might perhaps be able to bind multiple sets of god-energy to them to perform their tasks.  

right now it is certianly in its infant state. If someone else has done this or if there are any thoughts, comments, they would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sean
ADGBoss

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Sean,

Given that Sorcerer lets the definition of "demon" be customized, you could handle this with plain old vanilla Sorc rules, I think. Just use all the play setup guidelines in Chapter 4 among the group beforehand - what Fang calls the "Genre Expectations."

Alternately, if you really want to remove the connotations of "demon," use the angel rules in Chapter 3 of The Sorcerer's Soul. These are not the angels of In Nomine or Armageddon, who (bluntly) are just superheroes. These are something way else, more like the characters in Wings of Desire or even A Wrinkle of Time. I also spend some time on the nuances of defining Humanity as "soul," which is not a simple issue.

In your view, should I move this thread to the Adept forum? It seems more like a Sorcerer issue than an actual game design issue, at present, but correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Best,
Ron

[ADGBoss]

Ron, this is what I have written up as kind of a way of thinking, but yes it may be more appropriate for the Adept forum. I do not have my book in front of me (damn work) but you could be very correct, just toying with setting a bit instead of add on rules.

Though I do think the concept is slightly different, because instead of being in sole domain over one entity (whatever we call it) you have essentially captured a Shard or part of a Divine being, essence.  Now there is still a battle for control with this essence (see prophet below) and the Shard would still manifest along the lines currently as a Demon would. That could change. So setting wise its just cosmetic changes but there is a (if slim) difference in the relationships.

Again though if this belongs somewhere else feel free to move 'er.

Sorcerer Priest

Concepts

-Binding of Gods
-Ruling a Society in the Open
-Prophets and Heroes
-Miracles
-Bronze age Fighting
-Gods/Demons and War

Binding of Gods
-Traditionally, the idea is that a Priest/Priestess is chosen and because of their faith they are brought into the fold of the powerful.  I am thinking a nice twist on this would be that a priest becomes an initiate and those who learn the correct secrets are able to bind a bit of the god's power as a Demon or some cool word I have not thought of. Maybe Shard.

Ruling a Society in the Open
-In Traditional Role playing we often have a separation of secular magic and divine magic.  While there is nothing wrong with this, historically magicians were also often either priests or connected to the Divine in some way.  So Sorcerers would walk openly among the people and may even be revered as leaders.   People would understand to some extent the power of the sorcerer-priests-warriors.

Prophets and Heroes
-Prophets are not typically priests in the traditional sense but men and women of visions.  Perhaps this is a different kind of calling or perhaps is a prophet who has lost the battle for control of self.  They speak and act at the whim of the Divine they bound originally.
-Heroes might be slightly different. Perhaps they have a Divine (Demonic) taint and are one trick pony miracles.  Or perhaps they are able to bind part of their "parent" god naturally. Not sure here.

Miracles
-These are simply the regular abilities associated with Demons, perhaps expanded upon.

Bronze Age Fighting and Gods/Demons and War
-No need for too many changes here, though perhaps some flavor.  Though this does not necessarily need to be Bronze Age... it could just as easily be Sci-fi / Space Opera


Sean
ADGBoss

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Sean,

All this talk of shards reminds me of Raven's thread Revelations: an Immortal-inspired adaptation of Sorcerer. Is that along the lines you're thinking of?

Also, bear in mind that "well, it's a piece of a demon/god, not the whole thing," means nothing in Sorcerer system terms. All you're doing by saying that is setting the Power limits to a "reasonable" level, with the Colorful add-on that "more exists to back it up" for some scary atmosphere.

Best,
Ron

[ADGBoss]

Also

If competition of sort between the priests for the favor of the Gods were to exist. So a Sorcerer Priest is seeking not only more Shards from different gods but other Shards of the same Divine.  If a God is divided into a theoretical 1000 parts a newwer or minor Priest might have 1 shard while a more powerful Priest could have 3 or 4... depending on their personal lmits.

Sean
ADGBoss

[ADGBoss]

Hi Sean,

All this talk of shards reminds me of Raven's thread Revelations: an Immortal-inspired adaptation of Sorcerer. Is that along the lines you're thinking of?

Also, bear in mind that "well, it's a piece of a demon/god, not the whole thing," means nothing in Sorcerer system terms. All you're doing by saying that is setting the Power limits to a "reasonable" level, with the Colorful add-on that "more exists to back it up" for some scary atmosphere.

Best,
Ron

Its not quite what I am saying but I do see where its just a simple re-definition of what the "demon" instead of making something new

Sean
ADGBoss

[Valamir]

I would think the simplest thing to do is define each demon as being the god...with all of the powers that that god conveys, with the Demon Power level set at Infinite (or rather...something really obscenely high).

When a piece of the god is bound than each point of power is a single shard.  So a Priest with  6 shards of Ak-abrazeer, and 9 shards of Zchlotyl has a Power 6 demon with the powers provided by Ak, and a 9 Power demon with the powers provided by Zch.

The only additional tweak you might want is how to apply the normal, contact/summon/bind rituals for purposes of upping the power level.  Do you need to fully recontact, resummon, and rebind Ak-abrazeer to gain another 2 shards (bump him to power 8) or is there some other method.

[ADGBoss]

I would think there needs to be some ritual to absorb or bump him a level or two, because more of the God is coming into contact with you and so the chance that it might take you over would be greater.

Sean
ADGBoss

[greyorm]

Oddly enough, I've a mini-minisupplement called "Priest" as well.
Subtitled "...a game of fanaticism..."

As you can see from the opening text below, it originally started out as a game working from the concept of the priest in many fantasy games, where the deity or ideal they served was the demon.

Then I realized you could easily model real religious beliefs with it as well. I especially like using Bhuddism in this context -- the price of Enlightenment is the death of the Ego. But where do you draw the line between enlightenment (the loss of desire) and the desire to adhere to the faith in order to attain it? There's no clear answer.

To say nothing of religious fantaticism, which can easily be a dark and scary thing as far as I am concerned: terrorist bombings, group-think and dogma, denial of logic and reason, unquestioning obedience, etc...all in the name of trying to behave in the right, goodly way. No clear answer here -- you walk a tightrope, using your demons (fanaticism) to do "the right thing" and slowly, perhaps, losing your humanity to it.

A premise might be: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"...but, of course, without good intentions, the way there is much quicker.

There's lots more to do with this idea, I just haven't yet -- defining Humanity's roll, deciding how the non-sorcerous world works in regards to what's right/wrong, and so forth.

Here's the opening text:

In all games of fantasy, where gods are active and through their faithful cause miracles for their flocks or to smite their enemies, there is the priest. Also called the cleric, the channeler and the shaman, this is the character, the role, whose duty it is to speak the word of their chosen deity and wield its divine power as an earthly servant.

What of these men and women?
How free are they?
What is the price of channeling the very essence of your god time and again? Acting as their hand, speaking with their voice?

What if the price is...their soul?

What does devotion cost you? Your very being, your self-hood, your individuality.
For this is the price that must be paid; what is it that makes the cost worthwhile?
How much are you willing to lose for your Gods? How much are you willing to put into your faith, and how are you to justify it?

Hrm, I think I just hijacked your thread. Sorry.

[Spooky Fanboy]

Greyorm--

Had a similar idea I was going to call Cult. The idea is that the player-characters are all members of the same cult with the same demon, who they worship and sacrifice to in order to make the demon more powerful, so it can grant them miracles. Infighting, attempts to outdo the other faithful by 'exposing heresy', other Cults, and the established law and order are just some of the pitfalls that could be encountered. Imagine a bunch of driven, arrogant sorcerers in the same room, with the same demon, being reduced to competing with each other for it's attention and favors. Fun for the whole family...the Manson family, that is!

And yeah, consider this thread fully hijacked.

[Nev the Deranged]

Well, the physical manifestation of a god or deity is an avatar, a term which has been coopted by online communities for obvious reasons.  The physical manifestation or embodiment of an ideal or concept is an eidolon, which many old-style pantheon gods are not far from being, in a macro macro scale.

As for the idea about the gods having Infinite stats, of which the PCs have limited access to, that's very console-game-ish.  Eternal Darkness springs immediately to mind.  It's as good a way to define the concept as any.

But/Also think about this.  If a god's power comes from Attention (paid to him in the form of worship by his followers) and a god's power is based on Attention (paid to his followers by him), the relationship becomes one of "we worship you to increase your power so that you may in turn grant us your favor" IE "we pay attention (literally pay attention) to you so that you will pay attention to us"  So the question becomes, how much Attention (IE Power) does that god have?  What is it's relationship to the size/loyalty of it's following/cult/religion?  How is that loyalty defined/expressed/proved?  And more importantly to this thread, How many ways can the god SPLIT their attention?  (IE how many "shards" or whatever do they have to "lend out"?)  And do they get lent on a permanent basis (IE given to the priest) or lent out on an as-needed basis (which is more compatible with the faith/prayer/supplication ideas presented in most religious dogma).  So if a deity has a limited supply of attention and you call upon him and he can't spare it at the moment... or he CAN, but all hell might break loose over here when he pulls some attention from there to deal with here or whatever.

Alright, I'm losing coherence... I'll stop now.  Hopefully my babbling has been useful to someone in some fashion.

NtD