Steel and Shadows: Inspired by Thugs and Thieves

[ADGBoss]

First I want to say that Steel and Shadows was heavily inspired by Ethan Greer's http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5939">Thugs and Thieves.  Even though S&S is going to be far different, I still wanted to give heavy props to Ethan for some kick ass ideas.

Steel and Shadows grew out of Dave Panchyk's Crunchy bits response in Thugs and Thieves.  So S&S is going to be pretty crunchy.  I did not want to use a pre-existing system and since I have like 6 versions of Devilfyre lying around, I decided I wanted to use one and maed it WyrmFyre.

Circle of Life

Ok so I come to my first major issue. There is a section of the character called Circle of Life. It is one part Cyberpunk Life Path and one part Sorcerer Kicker. Essentially every character has 7 parts to this Circle of Life.  One, the center one, is consistent between all the players, its essentially the EVENT that brought them together. The other six are events that happened in the

A couple of questions I have...
1) Should the 7th part of the circle be changable? As th game progrsses perhaps the lynchpin of the story changes foucs?
2) I was thinking that the other 6 parts would be related in some way... for instance:
Mother Died of plague - Father threw me into street - A kind baglady teaches me how to pick pockets - a mean guard kills bag lady - I learn fencing so I can avenge bag lady - I kill guard but nearly die of same plague that kills mother...
So it sort of comes full circle...

3) Should the 6 sub parts be randomn or choosable by the player?

any input here is much appreciated...

Sean
ADGBoss
1)

[Sidhain]

What is it you want the Circle of life to do? To provide impetus to the game and players out of the blue? To give them something to work towards through play?


The first variant--a fixed reason for them to be together is not always a good idea, because say look at the X-men, when first they come together its to learn to control their powers, with a hint of using those powers for good so the world sees them differently--then it moved on to being struggle to survive in a world that hates and fears us, and also "because we are a family" even though the family was constructed---so fixed reason they /are/ together isn't good--maybe "why they were drawn together" or "originally the tie to the others" perhaps but not why they are now.


An Evolving reason is better, and I suggest it not be random--random can lead the game to places the players don't want, frankly letting them come up with reasons themselves gives them more power in controlling the type of game they play.

I prefer that as both GM and player, random can be a decent option if /every member of the play group is stuck/.

[ethan_greer]

First off, thanks for the props.

Second, I'm not sure how you can randomize character-specific background events.  Can you clarify that a bit?

I like the idea of a shifting lynchpin, but I don't necessarilly agree with the whole inter-related suggestion, since it seems like it would be too limiting.  If I want option A and E for my character, I don't want to be forced to include B-D as well.  Or is that example not applicable.

[Jeph]

The other six are events that happened in the

Missing part of a sentance?

Anyway, thoughts on CoL: I like the idea. however, why limit it to seven sections? Some characters may want a more detailed Circle. I definitely like the idea of the events all being connected. But, in what way is it circular? sounds more linear to me.

About random circle vs. choose circle, I'm always in favor of choice. However, including a few tables to generate a random circle might be a nice idea for when character concepts are elusive.

[ADGBoss]

Thanks for the responses, I will try and take them and answer them in order to the best of my knowledge...

Sidhain

What is it you want the Circle of life to do? To provide impetus to the game and players out of the blue? To give them something to work towards through play?

Ok the Circle of Life is one part general background that helps to define the character by defining where they come from. Events that were important in their life. It also could be something to work towards or to work towards resolution of these issues.  

I know I did not make it clear but the 7th aspect or centerpoint which is common to all characters would not be randomn at all, and after reading through the responses so far I doubt ANY bits of the circle will be randomn.  More on this in a moment.

The lynchpin would be designed to evolve over time because its at least part of the motivation of the group and as you pointed out, a group's reasons and motivations would change over time.

ethan_greer

Second, I'm not sure how you can randomize character-specific background events. Can you clarify that a bit?

In Cyberpunk you rolled Lifepath. It did IMHO a very good job of throwing randomn bits of background at you although it was pointless if the GM did not use it in play.

I like the idea of a shifting lynchpin, but I don't necessarilly agree with the whole inter-related suggestion, since it seems like it would be too limiting. If I want option A and E for my character, I don't want to be forced to include B-D as well. Or is that example not applicable

I will try and clarify this one as well. The 7th part which is common to all the characters is the only one inter-related between the characters. The other six aspects (I really need one term for these things lol) tie into each other for each character not in the whole group. Er I hope that is more clear.

Jeph

Missing part of a sentance?

Yes, thanks, :)

It should read "The other six are events that happened in the life of the character, defining him or her and possibly providing plot hooks." In the example I use, the character had chosen Fencing (generic use here) as a skill and then used one his/her six defining aspects as means to explain WHY that was part of the character.

But, in what way is it circular? sounds more linear to me.

Yes the example I gavce is poor and I am trying to come up with a better one as we speak. The idea would be that the six defining aspects would be circular though this may be difficult (as in the example I gave if I went back in time and gave my mother the plague thats more circular). So the concept definitely has more tweaking.

Randomization.

I believe I am leaning more towards full choice though I do like the idea of the backup Random generator for when a Player is having a tough time defining their character.

Thank you all very much. I hope I have made this more clear (and complete lol) this time.

Sean
ADGBoss

[ADGBoss]

Ok a little bit of fine tuning for the Circle of Life feature

Circle of Life

Circle of Life

The Circle of Life represents a mixture of positive and negative moments in a character's life that formed the basis of the character's current situation and personality.  People are the sum of their experiences after all.

There are seven points on the Circle. There are three pairs of two that are linked events and a central Moment common to all characters in the current group.

Linked Pairs

For every up there is a down and for every wave there is a trough.  A character, before or after choosing their Skills and or extraordinary Powers (if they have them) should choose six events from their life that changed them as a person and molded their character.  Three should be positive and three should be negative.  In creating these, the character should link one positive and one negative together so that when done he or she has three pairs.  

Moment

The Moment can be defined as that action or event that initially drew the group together and/or is the current theme that motivates the group to stay and work together. This could be a quest; a common thirst for blood; a military brotherhood or unit; they all loved the same person or anything like this.  The key is that all the characters have this in common.


Comments

Sean
ADGBoss

[Walt Freitag]

Hi Sean,

It would be difficult to comment meaningfully on this without more information about how these elements are intended to be used in play.

The analogies with Lifepaths and Kickers only go so far. Lifepaths establish or modify skills and other stats, but you haven't mentioned any such mechanism here since the abilities are chosen first. The life-events may or may not be useful in creating Kickers or plot hooks depending on the nature of the events players describe, but what is the signficance of their being linked into pairs? In other words, what does the Circle structure provide that an ordinary freeform character background would not? Is it just the guarantee that negative events will be included? Is there something about the game's setting or creative agenda that the Circle of Life presentation provides appropriate color for? Does the system include specialized methods of creating situation that the Circles provide raw material for (such as, say, all situations should involve a connection between a positive for one character and a negative for another, or something like that)?

- Walt

[ADGBoss]

First and fore most the circle of life provides some background for the character, an idea who she or he is or was.  Providing a history so to speak.

Second, its supposed to provide possible conflicts for the character to resolve in the context of the game.  Giving both player and GM ideas to work with.

In Steel and Shadows, the characters are those dangerous people who live on the edges of society and civilization. Instead of focusing on lost tombs they vie for a sense of prestige among the adventurers who inhabit the cities.  Assassins, thugs, underworld conmen (and women) forbidden magics, duelists, and the seedy side of fantasy life. No gandolf or Aragorns here.  Whether Noble or slave, these people live with dirt under their finger nails.

SO I thought it was important for the player to have actual events listed that helped to shape their character.  Its a past that weighs heavy on them. For every positive event there was a negative one.  Giving them the sense they can never escape who they were.

Now I am open to the idea that it can have some impact on in game events.

Hope this helps some.

Sean