Players Changing Dice Results - survey and speculation

[clehrich]

Quite some years back, in I think maybe an Ars Magica campaign, I did more or less what John is describing: I rolled 2 10-siders for a percentile, got a result I hated, and then claimed that the 10 and 1 die were reversed.  Thus 0 - 7 (=7) becamse 7 - 0 (=70).  Why?  I didn't want to fail, because I thought what I was doing was cool.  Why, at a deeper level?  Immaturity.  I cheated, frankly.  Looking back on that, it still bugs me that I did it.

Beyond this, I suppose it could be argued that I thought cool things should happen because they're cool, not because the dice allow them.  But I think that lets me off easy.  I have seen exactly what Alan describes, in another game -- the person who keeps rolling until he gets a good roll, then waits until his next turn to reveal this wonderful roll.  I find this despicable.

As to the run of luck thing, we all know it happens.  And if it happens a hell of a lot in a single game, it can really tick you off.  But it seems to me that the trick is to have a game and a group that has means of parlaying failure into fun.  If the situation is such that failure is just plain failure, you're asking for cheating (my choice of words).

A side note: I teach college classes that have papers assigned, and plagiarism is pretty rife.  Downloading papers has become a big problem.  Now a big study was apparently done, and it turns out that the vast majority of such cheating happens in the following condition: the professor has made clear that late papers will not be accepted, i.e. turn in the paper on time or get an F.  In that situation, lots of students don't see that cheating is a bad risk, as against getting an F anyway because they are swamped with work or have writer's block or were just partying too much and are now out of time.  Based on this structure, I do think that a game and a group that sees bad rolls as failures naturally encourages cheating.  If failures lead to a different kind of fun (as with the Concession mechanic proposed by lumpley in Chalk Outlines and borrowed for my own Shadows in the Fog), then anyone who cheats rather than fail is a weenie, and you don't have to agonize about it.

Chris

[Bob McNamee]

That luck sink factor could be  a good reason for a mechanic that adds a bunch of bonuses after three failed rolls in a row.

[John Kim]

Why?  I didn't want to fail, because I thought what I was doing was cool.  Why, at a deeper level?  Immaturity.  I cheated, frankly.  Looking back on that, it still bugs me that I did it.  

Dude, Chris, you need to chill out.  It was just a game.  :-)  But seriously, knowing you a little, it occurs to me that attitudes on die-roll-changing are probably rooted into general attitudes towards rules, authority, or something like that.  I know that I tend to react badly to authority, for example.  

It reminds me of a parallel in two volleyball leagues at Fermilab.  I was in the summer league, who were the casual players.  We were generally louder, more disorganized, less skilled, and we cheated.  We also had a lot of fun.  The winter league were the more serious players and they generally couldn't stand to play with us.  Of course, they had a lot of fun too.  I suppose you could say we were less mature (especially since we allowed kids to play, which the winter league didn't).  If we had to play together, I think the only thing to do would be some compromise on both sides.  

Based on this structure, I do think that a game and a group that sees bad rolls as failures naturally encourages cheating.  If failures lead to a different kind of fun (as with the Concession mechanic proposed by lumpley in Chalk Outlines and borrowed for my own Shadows in the Fog), then anyone who cheats rather than fail is a weenie, and you don't have to agonize about it.  

Hmm.  I like the idea of these rules, but I retain some skepticism.  If a player is changing rolls for the better, then I would take that as a sign that you haven't removed the stigma of failure from the roll.  Conversely, if failures are really just as fun, then presumably you'll have weenies like me changing their rolls into failures.  :-)