New proficiency

[Ashton]

So there's sword and shield, there's rapier (covering also rapier and cloak, rapier and dagger, rapier and arming glove, and probably rapier and bar wench and rapier and chicken as well), and there's case of rapier. What there isn't is rapier and shield (rotella), a technique taught by both Capo Ferro and Fabris.
In actual (non-TRoS practice) it severely limits the lunge, but it almost completely locks out the inside line, not giving one much of an attack. The reason for the inclusion of the cut maneuver is that the masters in question suggested harrying cuts to the legs when facing someone employing a like style because they would not be able to move them out of the way as quickly. The other activation costs and defaults were extrapolated out of Jake's original material. It also gives someone the advantage of the rapier with a better way of keeping themselves alive should they be facing off against someone with a larger weapon.

Offensive Maneuvers
Beat (0)
Bind and Strike (0)
Feint (1, may be performed from a thrust)
Simultaneous Block/Strike (0)
Stop Short (0)
Thrust (0)
Cut (0)
Evasive Attack (1)

Defensive Maneuvers
Block Open and Strike (2)
Block (0)
Counter (4, vs. thrusts and for thrusting only)
Expulsion (2)
Parry (1)

Defaults
Case of Rapiers: -1
Cut and Thrust: -2
Dagger: -4
Doppelhander: -4
Greatsword: -4
Mass Weapon and Shield: -3
Pole-arms: -3
Pole-axe: -4
Pugilism/Brawling: -4
Rapier: -1
Sword and Shield: -2
Wrestling: -4

[tauman]

Interesting idea. I haven't tried Rapier & Buckler yet (although my buckler is on order), so I don't really have any experience to agree, disagree, or offer an opinion (I'll get back to you when I do :) But it looks good to me.

On a related note, I think it would be neat for a Seneschal to figure out the different weapons masters and training schools in an area, along with their rivalries and the various idiosyncracies of their styles. It would take some knowledge of WMA, but it could be done (maybe good material for "The Flower of Battle"). Perhaps students of certain schools would get CP modifiers against specific maneuvers of other rival schools (and vis versa): "...All of Maestri Avili's students seem to like doing a bind like this...here's how to counter it..."

Steve Reich

[Ashton]

What I'm suggesting is that rapier and buckler still be covered under the rapier proficiency, and that this would cover using a medium round shield in the non-dominant hand. There is a substantial enough difference (IMHO) to warrant the different proficiencies. For one, the buckler does not detract from the movement of a fighter whereas a more substantial shield does, therefore requiring different tactics.

I think what you are suggesting in terms of bonuses against different sword schools would be covered under the Style Analysis skill. Only after three successes would someone gain a bonus to their CP. Personally, if you are going to introduce different masters, I'd alter the Activation Costs slightly for different maneuvers. For example Maestri Avili's students have to pay an Activation Cost of 3 to Grapple (he didn't stress it as much), but only have to pay a cost of 2 to activate a counter (his style stresses the counterattack).
What I'd love to see in TFoB is new maneuvers that only certain schools teach. I am not talking kewl powers, but rather historic techniques that might not have seen widespread use and were of varying usefulness.

[tauman]

What I'm suggesting is that rapir and buckler still be covered under the rapier proficiency, and that this would cover using a medium round shield in the non-dominant hand. There is a substantial enough difference (IMHO) to warrant the different proficiencies. For one, the buckler does not detract from the movement of a fighter whereas a more substantial shield does, therefore requiring different tactics.

I think what you are suggesting in terms of bonuses against different sword schools would be covered under the Style Analysis skill. Only after  three successes would someone gain a bonus to their CP. Personally, if you are going to introduce different masters, I'd alter the Activation Costs slightly for different maneuvers. For example Maestri Avili's students only have to pay an Activation Cost of 3 to Grapple (he didn't stress it as much), but only have to pay a cost of 2 to activate a counter (his style stresses the counterattack).
What I'd love to see in TFoB is new maneuvers that only certain schools teach. I am not talking kewl powers, but rather historic techniques that might not have seen widespread use and were of varying usefulness.

I'd like to see that too. The modifiers we're talking about would probably be relatively small, but even 1 CP might be enough so that swordsmen trained by a certain master will be more likely to use certain maneuvers. Of course when you get really good, you adapt your tichnique to the fight at hand, so if you notice that your opponent has a really good counter to one of your techniques (and you survive), you don't do it the same way next time...

To complicate things even more, if you bout someone many times (or even see them bout many times), you have a chance of figuring out his particular habits, strengths and weaknesses. This could lead to interesting adventures where one or two characters are asked by one master to infilitrate a particular school or bout to observe the techniques of another master--perhaps prior to a public bout between the two of them...

Steve Reich

[Salamander]

First off, Ashton, good idea, I like the Rapier and Shield proficiency, mind if I borrow it for my game? It sounds predominantly Italian, could be a good regional thing I could use for that part of the world in my game (Renaissance).

As for the schools, I was thinking I could leave them abstract, but you guys have got me tempted to change that now... As you have shown the potential for more adventures is alluring. I wonder how often such spying went on in those days.

[Ashton]

First off, Ashton, good idea, I like the Rapier and Shield proficiency, mind if I borrow it for my game? It sounds predominantly Italian, could be a good regional thing I could use for that part of the world in my game (Renaissance).

I wouldn't have posted it here if I wanted to keep it all to myself. Also considering the technique was officially documented by Fabris and Cap Ferro (at least those are the two that I know of), two Italian masters, then yes, it would be.
For the TRoS setting, I think Fauth, and perhaps Xanarium, would be the  most likely candidates for schools of that nature while Gelure has a nationalized system as part of officer training. Xanarium already has something similar in Case of Rapier to differentiate, however. I would still keep the nature of the Fauth schools small, and entrance costly and restricted, but it could still make for interesting flavor for a campaign.
You could also end up with characters with SAs like Drive: to become top student, or better yet Drive: To open a school.

Another option with sword schools would be to require students to have certain prerequisites before they could start training with the rapier. For instance: it was traditional for Italian masters to first teach the two-handed sword before moving on to the civilian weapon. Some masters might include weapons training as part of a larger education so you might end up with characters who have the Academic+Swordsman packages.