Mordschlag stats

[Caz]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I made it up after running a few fights in full plate armour in the game.  I don't see how you would want to do with out it.  Suggestions?
Mord schlag (murder strike, or something to that effect)
   Description- Can be used at any time, but primarily vs. armours that can't be cut.  Can be used at no cp penalty directly from the 1/2 sword.  It involves holding the blade and striking with the hilt, using it like a poll axe or war hammer to strike, hook, and thrust.

(I've got a long standing house rule, when striking hard armours, regardless of the weapon, it's rolled on the B tables, unless it was a good puncturing attack, or made from a very large, and armed, creature, etc. GM discretion)

Use the stats for the sword, but make all damage B, + X shock, + 1 dam vs. hard armours, if you use that rule, ATN + 1, range is med or short.  Can deliver downward or rearward piercing attacks.  ATN + 2 if using 1 hand on a primarily 2 handed weapon.  
   A fumble could mean lvl 1 cuts on bare palms, or easy disarm.  (It's a bit unweildy)

[Ashren Va'Hale]

I just use the warhammer stats myself. And I allow new maneuvers, like hooking.

[Caz]

That's good for keeping it simple, but it also means the blow will be the same weather  you're using a short sword or a greatsword.  
I pretty much allow hooking w/everything.

[Ashren Va'Hale]

two things, how would mortshlag be different from long sword to shortsword barring any significant changes in hilt design?

and how can all things hook? Say a quarter staff for example... what can you hook with seeing as you thrust past the limb then pull back catching it on the "hook" of the weapon (like the pruning hook of the bill)

What am I missing in your post?

[Caz]

Mordschlag would be different from longsword to shortsword simply by its size.  More weight = heavier blow.  The larger sword will usually have a longer cross, and a heavier pommel, be more or less oriented toward 1 or 2 hnd blows, etc.
   How can all things hook?  Not in the same manner of course.  Like you said, with a polearm with a hook on the head, you can miss a thrust and hook back.  With a quarter staff, as you mentioned, the range would have to be closed, and you could, for example, wrench behing his neck or knee with the foot or so of staff under your rear hand.  This works for most weapons, dagger, longsword in the standard grip can hook this way with the grip/pommel, or hook in with the cross.  You just can't do them at optimun range, as you would with something with an actual hook on it.

[Jake Norwood]

I'd drop the damage or up the ATN or both. Morschlag is possible and useful, yes, but it doesn't stand up to a specialized weapon of similar function (ie poleaxe)

Jake

[Caz]

Agreed, I didn't check it against other weapons.

[Salamander]

Hilt shape also plays a big factor in the ability to perform a murder stroke. If the crosspiece is straight and a simple design it will be a more direct impact. If the crosspiece is turned down, however, the impact is turned by the crosspiece thus moving to a glancing blow in addition to the curvature of the armour redirecting the impact away from the wearer. One other thing, I am no expert on this, but I have only seen the murder stroke used with long swords & greatswords, but never with shortswords...

[Lance D. Allen]

Whoa.

Am I the only one who hasn't the slightest clue what this More-slut or whatever is?

[Salamander]

Whoa.

Am I the only one who hasn't the slightest clue what this More-slut or whatever is?

LOL!

Okay, MordeSchlag is translated roughly as "Murder Stroke" or "Murder Beat" or "Murder Bash" or "Murder Pound". What happens is basically from the half sword you switch your grip so that you can smash your oponent in the upper body with the crosspiece of the weapon, by turning it into an impromptu hammer. Often used by swordsmen in harness whilst in close fighting with another guy in harness (but often only after they have lost their primary weapon). It is also handy when countering the other guy as he halfswords and can bind him up pretty good as a prelude to grappling. Talhoffer has some really good examples in his works, I don't have my copy handy, can anybody provide plate numbers?

[Caz]

Plate 33 has one.  Though there are plenty in there.  Hans LOVES the schlag.
   The cross definitely affects it, though maybe not s much as you think.  You can try beating on helmets with different types.  It's hard to tell the difference from inside one especially!  If it is hooked, it may be more likely to glance, but it'll still ring his bell.  it can be done with the pommel or the stark as well.