Kyuseisha: Su-pa- Shin-Pureitesuto!

[Andy Kitkowski]

Hey all- This is Actual Play, usually reserved for tellings of sessions of a particular RPG or other.  I'm in the middle of playtesting a game (Kyuseisha), and I figure I'd post the first playtest session notes here, and link them to my post in Indie Design.

Anyway, here were the basics:

1) Hardly any sleep. Last day of three-day con. Coffee wasn't helping anymore. Almost cancelled the event, but luckily I was able to scrounge together a few players and did a quick chargen and encounter or two before I broke to play a quick boardgame and head home.

2) I presented everyone with the character sheet I made a few nights previous: http://www.z-builder.com/rpg/kyuseisha/kyucharsheet.jpg

3) More notes on the game can be found on the Indie Game Design thread at http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7340

Any more questions, feel free to ask!

========

The Events:

The players, a man and a woman, made up a character each.  Since the Role system, like Risus or Sorcerer, pretty much allows the player to define their starting roles, the man played a "gunslinger/paladin" type, based apparently on the Gunslinger series by Stephen King (I haven't read them yet).  The woman made a scavenger/trader/scrapper type.

We went around and talked a bit about the background of the world, as well as the background of their characters, how they met, etc.

The game started off with a bang. They were travelling from one twon to the next when they are attacked by three archers on a dune. They take cover, the archers advance- Turns out that one had some kind of sickness, and they only wanted the PCs medicinal supplies (to fight back a plague).  They are from a nearby town which was waiting for a convoy of medicinal supplies that was ambushed.

The PCs spare them and even trade for some medicine they had.  In return, one of the archers would lead them to some ruins that most scavengers didn't know about (the scavenger cut that deal). On the way, they run into desert bandits/traders, the same ones that raided the previous town's medicine caravan.

Since the adventure was a quick one, the PCs basically traded with the bandits: Some useful skills and equipment in exchange for the medicine. Game Over. :-)

===============

So, this post is primarily to lock down some playtest notes to aid in further discussion of this game on these boards.

1) Chinese Dice: I used Chinese/Japanese d6es in the demo, which had the kanji on each side.  They worked very well, I thought. Basically, the system of this game is A) Roll a pool of dice, B) any doubles, add +2 to that number.  So, if you roll 5 dice: 2, 4, 4, 4, and 6, your score is 8 (4 comes up three times, so that's 4 plus 2 for each additional 4).  Anyway, it seemed like these folks (who of course had no background in Chinese/Japanese) were able to match up the pattens quickly, perhaps even moreso than pips.

Sure, Chinese dice aren't essential to the game, but I thought it was a cute observation.

2) Chargen: I need to rename Power.  Too aesthetically similar to "Willpower". I went with "Might" for this playtest.  I might go with Power and Spirit, else Might and Willpower, or maybe something else altogether.  Small point.

3) Chargen: Combat: This section was meant to exist so that players can write all their combat abilities, weapon damage scores, etc in one area. I need to make that area better defined as to prevent confusion: Include "Hand to Hand" "Weapon 1 Attack/Damage" "Weapon 2 Attack/Damage" "Defense", etc.

4) Chargen: Roles: This was the biggest playtest discovery. Basically, my current Role system is crap and needs to be changed, and I wouldn't have discovered it without playtesting.

So first, I like the idea of roles/jobs/"cover", instead of lists of skills. I wanted to let the players choose up to 3 (but primarily one or two) roles to play. I also wanted to let the players define the roles and what they do ("I am a 'Scavenger of the Red Sands'- That means that I... yadda yadda").

Thing is, keeping the Role score at the highest ability score means that the players will be rolling that one single score all the time.  That was a little boring for me and the players, and pretty much made the other non-high stats useless, as they could just go back and roll their Role score over and over instead.

Secondly, I may have to think of a way to have the players define what they can do well (ala Donjon), or give them a lot more openness in roles. See, with Sorcerer, as it takes place in the modern world, if someone says "I'm a lawyer: I swing at him with this pipe, turning my back and arms like I do when I play 9 holes with the Disctrict Attourney", and everyone will immediately Get It.  Thing is, this is a post apocalypse setting that is half defined by the players, half defined by the GM, so I need to tighten up what the players can and can't do, or take that into consideration with the Role system.  My first thought here is just to have the PCs choose only up to 2 roles, and ONLY 2 roles if they are completely disparate.

Ex: In the game, the Scavenger character described how that includes her combat abilities, as she often had to keep what she took from rival scavengers in her competitive city. She instead (at my suggestion) took "Thug" as a secondary role to handle the combat, intimidation, etc.  That really didn't need to happen- I could have kept those together.  I still want to have there be the ability to take two roles, say if someone wants to be a Scavanger and an Ecologist, or a Driver and a Poet (basically two very different roles).

Anyway, my solution for the above problem (you roll the main role too many times, stats don't make much difference) is this:

Instead of splitting points amongst the stats, then choosing the highest to be your Core Role score, you will split a smaller amount of dice amongst those stats, then set your Core Role score at your highest stat... Then, when rolling, instead of rolling the Core Role by itself, you combine the Core Role and relevant attribute.

I think an easy way to think about this is the World of Darkness system: You have 9 stats (attributes), then a split list of skills. When you roll, you take the number on the relevant stat, then the relevant skill, and roll them together.

If Kyuseisha looked a little more like that, instead of a huge skill list, you'd have one or two boxes, your Roles basically, and when rolling to do something you take the relevant attribute and add that role instead of a skill.

4.1) Chargen: Attributes: Each player chose something that gave them a +1 to an action, and something that gave them a -1 to an action (read: Sorcerer's "Price").  It friggin' worked great.  That totally "jump started" both players into thinking about the personalities of their characters.

5) Play: Powers: The Powers were immediately understandable and appealing to the players.  Still, I might actually write the effects of the powers into the character sheet. On top of that, I looked at old playtest notes I had where I actually divided up powers a little finer (as to what the players could and could not do), and that had an appeal to it.  I might go for that in my next playtest (say, like, you have to choose whether your powers affected your mind, your social skills, your body, etc).

6) Play: Destiny: I'm loving this destiny, but I may call it something else.  I'm glad I have it set (as suggested in the other thread) at a set number. I need to tidy up the Destiny box and give specific examples of how that can be used.

7) Play: Combat: Combat needs a little more work, too.  I gotta go now, but I'll post later on some problems and suggestions.

Anyway, that's it for now.  More later.

[Jeph]

Let me go on record saying that character sheet is damn pretty.

Ahem. Yeah. Is there any way I can get the full rules of this game? It sounds extremely interesting, really "my kinda thang," ya know? And Powers. It was the falls-from-cliff (named saved as  Exalted character...) example in the other thread that got me. YES. I likes teh powers. Easily grasped, useful, simple to implement, cool...

As for the name changes, Power has a lot of connotations (I should talk, using it in half my games and all). I'd go with the Might/Willpower direction. or maybe Brawn/Willpower. Hell, even Brawn/Soul. (okay, that was a lot less coherant than I would have liked.)

I'm not sure I completely comprehend your new chargen system yet. Is it something like: split 15 points between your stats, your Core Role is equal to your highest stat. If you have 2 Roles, instead split 13 points between your stats, your Core Role is equal to your highest stat, and your Secondary Roll is equal to your second highest stat? (then figure combat choose powers choose attributes yadda yadda)

Hope that made some sense,
Jeff

[Ron Edwards]

Boy, talk about Sorcerer influences. I've been looking forward to this ever since you brought it up in that context.

Andy, this is great stuff. You're essentially adapting the dice-matching Whispering Vault mechanic into an easier form.

I'm afraid I think cutting to a skill/attribute system on the White Wolf model really is going the wrong road. If "Role" isn't working due to the unfamiliarity of the setting, then what you need is a list of Roles as starting points and inspirations. If it's not working due to everyone using that score for everything, then you need to define its application more clearly. Mechanically, I'd remove the number from it - and just use the attribute-type scores, with Role defining what you can do but not how good you are. Clean, mean, sensible, and non-negotiable.

Best,
Ron

[Blake Hutchins]

Hi Andy,

I also love the neat capsules of roles, and I'd suggest this:  if a role such as "Scavenger" is defined to have combat capability as a side note, you might follow the example of Hero Wars (Quest) and factor and assess an improvisation penalty for any combat or other action that seems to be at the limit of the role's concept.  I picture Scavenger combat (when it happens) as short and vicious, using found weapons and no rules, but unless it's defined as specifically violence oriented (e.g., Scavenger-Soldier of the Cairnlands), combat techniques wouldn't be central to the role.  Contrast "Scavenger" with, say, "Duellist" or "Rifleman."

Best,

Blake

[Andy Kitkowski]

Hey all- to clarify CharGen as it currently stands, allow me to copy and paste the contents of a handout I gave to each player:

Kyu-Sei-Sha Character Generation

1) Stats: You have 5 stats:
MIGHT      Your physical might and resistance
WILLPOWER   Your mental resolve, spirit, and mental/sprit strength
TECHNIQUE   Your hand-eye coordination, balance, and coordination
KNOWLEDGE   Your education, memory and general lore about the world (the existing world and the Old World)
CONTROL   Your supernatural perception, ability to do things outside the range of normal human abilities

You will choose two of these stats to be your "favored stats". You'll split up 10 points between the two of these stats (Only limit: One of these cannot be below 3 points). If you want and/or have the time, feel free to write one/few-word descriptors of how the ability manifests in you Might= Conditioning, Martial Training, Abberant Physiology; Willpower=Belief System, Leader of Men, Ambition, etc). These descriptors won't have any game effects, but they will fill out those nifty character bubbles.

For your other three stats, divide 10 points among the three of them.

2) Roles are the core of the game. Choose your character's main role, what she's known for across the wastes.  Anything is fine. Here are some suggestions:

Messenger/Runner   Savage      Hunter
Guardsman   Martial Artist   Ninja (!)
Dervish      Scavenger   Sand Griot/Loremaster
Handyman                   Old Tech collector   Poet
Ecologist   / Farmer   Historian      Investigator
Tribe Ambassador   Skull Adept*   Red Warmaster*
Jarwinnian Hyper-ecologist*

*What the f___ are these? You tell me! You pretty much write your character's backstory, so you tell the GM what a Skull Adept is and what she does. You invent a "Blue Base Runner" and tell the GM what they are and what they do.

Now, write that role down as your Core Role.  Your Core Role's circle will contain the higher number of your favored stats.

Secondary Role, same thing as above, but your circle will contain the higher of your non-favored stats.

Notes: Want to make a third Role? Go ahead! Just take one of the non-highest abilities out of Secondary Role, and this will be the number in the circle of your Other Role.
*If you don't take an Other Role, add +1 to the number of your Secondary Role.
* If you don't take an Other Role OR Secondary Role, add +2 to the score of your Core Role. Be careful about doing this, though, as you will be limiting what you are trained at doing. You will be highly trained in one area, at the expense of others.

3) Attributes are simple +1 or -1 descriptors of things that you are naturally inclined to do: Think Advantages/Drawbacks, but they MUST be tied to die rolls ("I have an enemy" doesn't count, but "I am gruff and tend to rub people the wrong way in speaking to them: -1 to social interactions" DOES count).  Above the line, choose something about you that gets a +1 (pretty, eloquent, natural leader, extremely strong/fast/smart/resistant to pain, etc) and under the line, choose something that gives you a -1. Be creative.

4) Desinty is what, in several generations to 1,000+ years, what your character will be remembered being like.

Andy will explain all about Destiny in a bit.  You all start with 4 "destiny points"

5) Combat is where we will write your various combat-related abilities and relevant numbers so that you don't have to chase all over the page adding shit up.
Your combat score will most likely be based off your Core Role or Secondary Role, depending on what weapon you use (fists, shiv, hardware, zipgun, etc). Take a look at relevant Roles/Stats/Attributes, and determine your combat totals for a weapon (or two) that you commonly use. Default for hand-to-hand weapons is Might, default for missile weapons is Technique.

Then determine your "dodge" role.  This will be the Core Role that contains Technique or Control.  You can opt instead to default to either Technique or Control themselves, if those stats are higher.

Be creative, though, and try to get your Roles in there. They will give you an edge.

Next, write down any weapons you might be carrying, and their damage:

Martial Arts, Fists: Depends on Core Role/Might: 1-3=1, 2-6=2, 7+=3
Small bladed/blunt weapons +1
Medium bladed/blunt weapons (shiv, spear, sword) +2
Huge/Rare bladed/blunt weapons +3
Slings: +1
Bow, Spear: +2
Compound Bow (Rare), Crossbow +3
Firearms: Zip Guns +2
Real Firearm: +3
Real Shotgun/Automatic weapon +3 or more
Huge Fucking Guns +5 or more

6) Powers: We'll keep this area simple:
Your Powers score is your Control score
You can do a few things with Powers:
Possibility Engine: Reroll all your dice.
Mantra: Double your dice pool.
Musou: Divide your d6 dice pool in half, rounding up, and replace those dice with d8s.
You can combine any of the two above.
Reborn! :  Take away all temporary damage, and heal up to your Might score (minimum 2) in points of Lethal Damage

You can use any of the above, but each costs one point of power. You can use up to your power score in the above every day. You can spend three points (dice) out of the Destiny Pool to activate a power.

7) Stuff: Here is where you write down a few special items that you may have (outside the ordinary: Food, water, small rope, etc). Base them on your roles. Consult the GM and hash it out.

8) Appearance: This is where you describe your character. Make it cool. BTW, as for clothes, it's usually pretty hot, so only a few will be able to tolerate the "black trench coat" thing.

9) Cadre: This is the most important part of your character sheet, bar none. Talk with the other players, and determine how your characters met each other.  You don't ALL have to be buddies. Mix up the times that you met, too (2 years, 3 days, etc). The "We all met at a pub and became the best of friends after the brawl we inadvertently started" story only works in a few (lame) games.

10 (or ZERO) Name your character. The world is now truly a melting pot. Most people have only one name (last names tend to get lost over time, save for a few people), but it could be based on old American/European/African/Chinese/Japanese/Indian standards. Or, you can choose a nickname for your character that she is known by.  

Congratulations! You're well on your way to creating an ass-kicking survivor of generations of savagery and conflict!

==============

Note: In the above, I didn't give a lowdown of Destiny.  Destiny was the following:

1) Character Motivation: "Greedy", "Daring", "Ambitious", "Caregiver"
2) Character Traits: "Swarthy", "Cynical", etc
3) Plans for the future: "Unite a tribe", "Free slaves", "Destroy the Wicked"

The players then divided that pool of 4 points into the above.  Any time the above came into play, they were able to use an amount of dice as a bonus to that roll. This idea originally came from Dread's Drive, but TROS tightened this up a bit.

Oh, Destiny also was a central pool of dice that players can draw from whenever they wanted to.  These were d8s that sat in the middle of the table (4 per player, but in one pile), and they could take and use as many as they wanted.  They never refill, save the next adventure/play session.

Last bit that didn't appear above (because I explained it live): ROLES. The main draw to a role is that, in addition to whatever die amount it has, any time you roll your role, you get to roll a d8, too. This gives the player an edge on things that they are known for. The edge of course includes the nearly 25% chance that they can beat rolls coming their way.

Oh, and as for the die mechanic: I believe I explained it above, but instead of difficulty numbers and the like, the GM rolls an opposing pool of dice, open for all to see, at the player. High score wins. The difference is the degree of success, but this doesn't come up into play save for the amount of embellishment in the description of what happens.

Now, to adress some comments in a new post...

[Andy Kitkowski]

Let me go on record saying that character sheet is damn pretty.

The jury has been duly noted so.  Thanks!

Ahem. Yeah. Is there any way I can get the full rules of this game?

Hey, man, they're still being hammered out as I write!  But please, ask away, and I'll provide what I have.

It was the falls-from-cliff (named saved as  Exalted character...) example in the other thread that got me. YES. I likes teh powers. Easily grasped, useful, simple to implement, cool...

You'll notice that that Mantra Of Movement didn't appear in this demo.  Probably due to insomnia while writing the above demo sheet. But, also, I want to rework the powers a little so it's not just a bunch of dice tricks. Rather, that certain character types can have access to (as chosen by the player) certain dice tricks, or the ability to use certain dice tricks in certain realms (physical rolls, mental rolls, combat rolls, etc).

I'm not sure I completely comprehend your new chargen system yet.

Close: For now, it's split 10 between two stats. Choose the higher, and that now equals your Core Roll.  Divide 10 points among the remaining stats. Take the higher of that, and that becomes the number of your Secondary Role. If you forego a Secondary Role, you instead add 2 points to your Core Role, but you are limiting your character to basically one realm of experience.

In the game itself?  I intend to do something goofy.  If there was one core mantra of this game, it's "Conflict".  I intend to provide the above character generation system to the GM/Players as a sample of an "average, high-powered hero", but will actually suggest that the GM and players beforehand hash out what kind of game they want: Everyone is average? Then cool, play as is. If you want one person to be uber-powerful, and the rest to be lackeys (ala Buffy or Ars Magica), then give the uber-dude more points and the others less. The core character generation system will be "write down your abilities as you think you want them to be, all the while checking against the GM and other players", and the above 10 points, 10 points bit is just an example.

Andy, this is great stuff. You're essentially adapting the dice-matching Whispering Vault mechanic into an easier form.

Hey, thanks man!  As luck would have it, at TrinocCon (this gaming con where I ran this mess), one of the door "slip in your Con bag" giveaway items was, along with a copy of the Legacy: War of Ages RPG, was a mint Whispering Vault as well as the supplement for that game- I have barely cracked the cover, but it's some interesting stuff (smells like "Clive Barker's Superheroes!" or something). I'll have to check out the resolution mechanic in there.

I'm afraid I think cutting to a skill/attribute system on the White Wolf model really is going the wrong road...

Interesting.  With what I have written above, I could set the stats above and leave them as is, and just have the player roll an extra d8 when their roles come into effect (as per your "forget the numbers" suggestion).  I'll have to think about that. My other idea was this:

1) In the chargen example above, use 6 points between two stats, and the highest is your Core Role. Then use 6 points between the other three stats, and the highest value is your Secondary role.

Then, in play, whenever you need to roll your Core Role, you add the value of your Core Roll to the relevant attribute, and roll all the dice. Same with Secondary Role.  And still, as above (for now, anyway), substitute one of those dice for a d8.

Another thought, for the next playtest, is to keep things as they are, with Core Role and Secondary Role as Ron's suggestion, but anytime someone does something using their Core Role (hey, it has to have some nifty effect, right?  ...well, it does for me, anyway), then the GM halves the opposition dice rolled against that PC.

Anyway, something to think about before the next playtest session.

I also love the neat capsules of roles, and I'd suggest this:  if a role such as "Scavenger" is defined to have combat capability as a side note, you might follow the example of Hero Wars (Quest)...

Also an interesting idea.  Off the top of my head, I don't think I'll go that route, but it is giving me something to chew on.  In either case, I do have to make rules to better define Role's game effects, and how the GM/Players agreement on how a role works influences the game.  Thanks, Blake!

And thanks, everyone!  More fuel for Kyuseisha 0.6!

BTW, since folks asked about the title of the thread, it's a play off of countless Japanese "Engrish" ads I've been forced to endure overseas: "Super Shin("New")-Playtest!"

Hello Kitty, or a suitably balanced clone, will find its way somehow into this game.

[Jeph]

Hmm. The d8 dice trick seems a bit iffy to me. Does it even actually give your character an advantage? It decreases your probability of getting a doubles quite a bit, and that's where I'd imagine most of the bonuses come from. Also, needing 2 types of dice is annoying where you otherwise wouldn't. Maybe something a bit more practical and understandable, such as, +2?

And, more importantly, what's Hello Kitty's core role?

[Andy Kitkowski]

Hmm. The d8 dice trick seems a bit iffy to me. Does it even actually give your character an advantage? It decreases your probability of getting a doubles quite a bit, and that's where I'd imagine most of the bonuses come from. Also, needing 2 types of dice is annoying where you otherwise wouldn't. Maybe something a bit more practical and understandable, such as, +2?

Do you mean the "Musou" power trick, where the dice get halved and turned into d8s?  Or the "add a d8 die to all rolls involving Roles?"

FOr the Musou trick, that was something I came up on the spot.  Converting all dice to d8s would be too much of a bennie, I thought.  Could be wrong, though, as I never did too well in stats class. :-)

However, two things that I want to go for in this game:
1) Multiple (a pool of) dice: The higher skilled/able you are, the more dice you get.  I love throwing larger amounts of dice as a metaphor for power. As long as it isn't more than a handful each roll, I think everything is fine.

2) Varying die representing varying skill: Originally, I had planned for "common folk" to only roll d4s, but I changed that, figuring rolling all those d4s would be annoying and counter-productive. I like the d8 as a representation of an "edge", whether it be high skill, fate, etc.  I'm actually planning on making rules for background characters to use a d10 or two in their rolls.

And whereas with d8s the probability of getting doubles goes down by 25%, but that 25% is the percent chance of you getting a 7-8, which is higher than most die rolls in the first place.

Anyway, that's what I was thinking when I went that route. In the end, I'm sticking with the d8s (for now) to represent the edges that Roles provide. Maybe I'll scrap that "roll all d8s" "Musou" power, though.  

Thanks!
-Andy